The K-Pro Thread

[BliNx197]

I asked the same question a year ago, why don't u investigate it! everyones apparently satisfied with cham's harness and doesn't wanna do any r&d work,... IMO a dual ecu setup is a bit risky, but if its ur only option so be it, but hey why not explore this? u can still use the kpro unit just not the element jumper harness,.. but im not overly familiar with either so as others said, do some research

[BliNx197]

http://www.hondata.com/kpro.html

Honda Element

2003-2006 Element (manual transmission with adapter harness and modified 02-04 ecu)
Price Description
$250 Upgrade an already K-Pro'd ecu for use in an 03-06 Element (includes adapter harness and ecu modification)
$1145 K-Pro for 2003-2006 Element includes adapter harness.
$1745 K-Pro for 2003-2006 Element includes adapter harness (with new Honda ECU)

You prolly have to use an Element ECU but that shouldnt be too hard to find, and your gonna pay the price for the Kpro either way.

[timot_one]

everyones apparently satisfied with cham's harness and doesn't wanna do any r&d work...

We use it because it is the best alternative and because it works.  The fpro solution you are going for is something that hasn't been proven to work, is for DBW TB's, and does not have as many features as kpro.  The r&d work has already been done for kpro and has been proven to work on multiple cars (one of them being mine).  I'm not sure why you have this aversion to using kpro, but sometimes it's better to use what you know works instead of overcomplicating things.

IMO a dual ecu setup is a bit risky, but if its ur only option so be it, but hey why not explore this? u can still use the kpro unit just not the element jumper harness...

How is it risky?  Hondata has a dual ECU set up for the TSX, what makes Cham's harness any different?  Do you understand the need to run dual ECU's?  The only reason why we have to run 2 ECU's is because you can't modify the Accord ECU for kpro, and because the RSX ECU cannot run the Accord gauges and HVAC.  You can run the car with only the RSX ECU (like the Element kpro), but have no gauges.  The OEM ECU's only purpose is so your gauge cluster works and you retain your HVAC controls.

i want to go k-pro.

Is there some reason why you want kpro?  Are you planning on building your motor or do you want it because you think it's a cool idea?  IMHO, it's a waste of money if you only use bolt ons.  Levi has already proven that.  He wasted his money on kpro and a shitty tune and only gained 10 whp.  Since he was only going with bolt ons and didn't want to do any work on the motor, he realized it was a waste of time and money and sold his kpro.  It's an entirely different story if you're planning on building your motor, going the FI route, or swapping motors.

[Skippy]

Timmy is 100% correct.  I have trained my apprentice well.

[BliNx197]

Thanks Tim for completely bashing my Fpro idea and research also for bringing it up because the idea of my post was not about not using Kpro,... I did say that someone should look into the Element Kpro setup, I've always been curious of this myself and have wondered why nowones ever attempted it honestly. But thanks for once again shooting down my answer to a question, that was neither true or false just encouragement in research.

[cstyleaccord]

just bc the element has a k24a4 does not make it's ecu identical to an accord. people don't really want to go around when they know there is something out there is working for them already.

[timot_one]

Bryan, I wasn't bashing your fpro idea.  I was merely stating facts and trying to clear up some incorrect information.  Show me where I was bashing your fpro idea and I will apologize.  Obviously, you think that I'm here to bash your ideas and make you look bad.  I really don't need to do that.  I'm just backing up something that you seem to be against doing.  I'm also trying to provide information so people can actually be educated about why there is a dual ECU set up for Accords to run kpro.  I guess my explanation for the need of running a dual ECU set up wasn't enough.  Instead, you ignored the information that I was trying to share and made it all about you.  You're not that important.  Trust me.

Now, on with more facts that have absolutely nothing to do with you or your fpro idea Bryan.

Here's the reason why the Element kpro will not work.

This is a Hondata modified 2002-2004 K series  ECU, plus Windows software and an adapter harness for the 03-06 MT Element. It is identical in function and price to the K-Pro for the 05/06 RSX-S

What this means is that the Element kpro will not control the gauges or the HVAC in our Accords.  You'd still have to run a dual ECU set up with it.  Basically, what Hondata offers is a modified ECU (which is identical with what is in my car) and a jumper harness.  My assumption is that they have you use the jumper harness because the pin output on the ECU is different after it has been modified by Hondata.

Again, there's nothing wrong with thinking outside the box and trying to find other solutions.  I just don't see the point in trying to reinvent the wheel when there is already an acceptable solution.

[BliNx197]

well Tim I do appreciate the offer of an apology but hey weve been through this before and I misnterpretted like youve misinterpretted me. As far as running Kpro, I just think its an expensive solution for a4s and even more so for a8s and id imagine running 2 ECUs does kinda suck in terms of a daily driver. If theres anyway I can run 1 im gonna look at it, and the fact that in an a8 I've gotta reswap a stock ecu and tb and throttle pedal on top of getting kpro and a harness.

I know Cham has stated he's looking at running it on DBWs but someone else is already on that project and I had other plans originally. If this turns up a dead end then ill be Kproing, simple as that but hell its been down for a month what's another week or 2 so I can get an answer?

[timot_one]

To be honest Bryan, there's no difference with running a 2nd ECU compared to stock.  My car is my DD, and when I kpro'd it in February, there was no change in how my car functioned.  Other than the fact that I have a 2nd ECU stashed away somewhere in my car, there is absolutely no difference at all.  How did you think there was something different about running 2 ECU's?

As far as using kpro with a DBW car, I would assume it is just a matter of sending voltage to the TB.  I'm pretty sure you would keep your OEM ECU if you planned on switching the TB from DBW to DBC.  I did a quick search of the parts needed, and as far as the pedals go, you would be spending less than $100 for the pedal, cable, and other parts.  The TB can be found for a decent price used also.  Hell, I have an extra TB that I'll sell you for cheap if you want to try it.

[BliNx197]

Id seen everyone elses Kpro squids and it seemed a lil messy, im rough as hell on my car and just didn't want to have to deal with a jacked up harness from tossing books in the passnger seat with no idea how to fix it, but thats good to hear. And like I said I already ordered Fpro and hell its brand new on the market if this doesn't work im sure someone will buy it!
But I do apreciate the TB offer, may take u up on that if its needed in the future.

[timot_one]

You wouldn't even know that I had kpro in my car if I didn't tell you I had it.  Maybe it's just the fact that I'm well versed in running wires through cars.  Either way, when done properly, you can have the harness in your car without anything getting in the way.

[macanic]

but on the tsx ecu they have to reflash the stock one and they cant reflash the stock accord one..

[CrackerTeg]

You wouldn't even know that I had kpro in my car if I didn't tell you I had it.  Maybe it's just the fact that I'm well versed in running wires through cars.  Either way, when done properly, you can have the harness in your car without anything getting in the way.

I can vouch for that. When I was up in Boston in April, Tim took me for a ride in his car around his area. If he hadn't told me he was running Kpro, I wouldn't know it. His interior is just like mine with some extra audio gear. If something was out of place, I would've noticed.

[timot_one]

but on the tsx ecu they have to reflash the stock one and they cant reflash the stock accord one..

I'm unsure if Hondata can reflash the Accord ECU, but it's worth looking into.  Hondata doesn't exactly explain what is "reflashed" with the TSX ECU, but my assumption is that it gets rid of the CEL and maybe changes something with the DBW control.  I'll say it again for the people that haven't noticed yet.  I have been running kpro on my car successfully since February without any problems at all.  For anyone with a K24A4, kpro is, in my opinion, the only tuning solution available.  Anything else you buy is a waste of money.

[Skippy]

Sorry Bryan, but you have no idea of what you're talking about.  Your assumption that running 2 ECU's is "risky" is unfounded.  If it were "risky", hondata would not have spent the R&D time designing a harness that works like ours does.  Hondata consider their ideas less risky than ours since they made a TSX conversion kit, and still have not made an Accord conversion kit.  Cham, Tim, and I have all run Kpro with the proven 2 ECU setup WITHOUT ANY SERIOUS ISSUE.  Seriously dude...stop talking about stuff you don't understand, and stop making statements that have zero merit.  You keep trying to fight us when you know we're right.  Just because you've got complications with going Kpro since you'll have to do EASY WORK to fix, you feel the need to make a judgment about the entire system and our efforts to circumvent it.  Face the facts..if your F-Pro solution doesn't work, you'll be forced to use a Kpro.  I'm tired of fighting with you in threads and gumming up the works because you fail to accept the fact that I might actually know what I'm talking about, and you're just guessing and making assumptions about 90% of what you're posting.

There is no error with a dual ECU setup....one runs the engine, the other runs the rest of the car...and as for mounting...Cham's harnesses are long enough to relocate the Kpro to a secure location, hiding it and the wires.  The number one image you see of people on Kpro is the entire harness and ECU in a pile on the floorboards, and that's done at the beginning to make sure everything runs right before making it pretty...if something goes wrong, you just have to unplug everything and convert back to stock...instead of tearing your interior apart to remove the ECU and harness after it was hidden before testing.