Tracking Left...

[MyNameIsThien]

I see it a lot of times. A lot of times its due to how the tires were shipped. They lace and jam pack all the tires on truck. A lot of times they sit squished together. Which then can distort the sidewall of the tires. Shops won't know until they sell the tires, and the customer complains about a pull not related to an alignment. Also, where the tire is made a lot of times makes a difference. Unfortunately, those Achilles tires I believe are made in China/Taiwan or some outsourced plant in another country. The rubber compound used in different countries do play an effect on how they perform in other countries.

For example: You can have two of the same brand/model of the tire, but one tire is made say in Malaysia and the other in USA. The tire compound on each one is different. The one in Malaysia is a lot of time a softer compound, while the one in the USA is harder. Thus, the softer compound tire will grip more causing a pull to the direction that tire is in.

[HEcreated487]

Thanks for the additional info, Thien.  What would you recommend?  Beat the sh!t out of these tires and hopefully they die in a year, justifying replacement?  I would prefer not to have to replace them at this point as it would seem unfortunate to replace "brand new" tires.  Yeah, I got what I "paid" for, but I would still hope to get some use out of them.

Will this tire pull be detrimental to the overall performance and wear of the car and its other systems/components?

[MyNameIsThien]

To be honest, I would run them until they are done. The tire itself won't cause any performance issues. You'll just have that constant pull to the left. How many miles are on your car? Another option to solving your tire issues is maybe have a tire shop flip the tires, and see if that helps.

[HEcreated487]

Thanks Thien. I just returned from the shop. They recognized the car and stated that the issue lies with the camber, as its way out of spec and causing opposing forces between the driver and passenger sides. The head technician and owner (who is very knowledgeable, with many, many years of experience) said that I cannot expect it to perform like stock cause there are numerous aftermarket components and modifications. Due to the stiff suspension and and alignment settings, every little bump in the road will almost certainly affect the steering and driving "feel". He stated that rebalancing the tires may help, but probably will have no significant effect, and would be a waste of my time and his. He said to just enjoy the car ...

Well that didn't solve anything  :

Since the Achilles 2233 has an asymmetrical tread pattern, I believe they technically cannot be flipped. I could always ask though. Has anyone had experience with flipping asymmetrical tires, especially when the sidewalls indicate "outside" and "inside", respectfully?

[MyNameIsThien]

Since its an asymmetrical tire, it is not advise to flip them because the inner sidewall is stiffer then the outer. Also depending on the tread, it may not perform as its suppose to. As in, it won't evacuate water like its suppose to and can cause some hydroplaning.

Even though the shop states camber is so far out, its even, and the car should still track correctly. Even with aftermarket parts, if you adjust toe correctly, the car should still drive partially straight and not veer left.

Camber pulls to the "MOST" positive side. Caster pulls to the most negative side. What is your caster reading? They say toe doesn't cause a pull, but I beg to differ. If toe is adjusted incorrectly, it makes the steering off center. When you straighten the steering wheel, the car then will pull in whatever direction it is off center.

[HEcreated487]

I forgot to respond to the mileage question Thien. I have approximately 76,600 miles.

Here is the updated alignment setting (OP REVISED AS WELL):

• - DS Front:  0.00° Toe | -2.6° Camber | 3.9° Caster
• - DS Rear:  0.08° Toe | -4.5° Camber
• - PS Front:  0.00° Toe | -2.8° Camber | 3.7° Caster
• - PS Rear:  0.10° Toe | -4.8° Camber

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So that slightly more positive camber on the DS may be a slight contributor to the leftward tracking? Seems a little trivial.

[MyNameIsThien]

I highly doubt it 0.3 of camber difference will cause pull. It would have to be more around the 1 degree area to cause a real pull. You don't have that much mileage to have some significant suspension issue. I'm going to either have to chalk it up to the tires, or their alignment readings are off.

[HEcreated487]

Ok thanks again Thien. I assume this reputable shop has a properly calibrated and leveled Hunters alignment equipment/rack. I'll have to add a second chalk mark towards the tires being the culprit. I plan to run them bald now. Stupid tires. LOL.

[alpha]

I just returned from the shop. They ... stated that the issue lies with the camber, as its way out of spec and causing opposing forces between the driver and passenger sides. The head technician and owner (who is very knowledgeable, with many, many years of experience)...

I would not return to that shop.  I would question exactly how knowledgeable this head technician actually is.

Your camber readings will not cause pull unless, as Thien stated, the alignment readings are off.  The alignment machine must be really out of calibration in this case.

I know from personal experience that negative camber can track straight.  When my s2000 was stupidly low, my camber was at -4F and -5R; it never had a problem with pulling either left or right.

[HEcreated487]

I'll do a little more investigation on the wear on the motor mounts (via recommendation from Thien) as well as the suspension/steering components.  Weather here in HI is pretty consistent, so I am hoping there isn't any significant damage to rubber bushings, metal bolts, etc.

@Mark- Thanks for the response.  I do not question the validitdy of the head technician. He is an older gentleman and is very knowledgeable regarding all makes and models (based on speaking directly to him and overhearing his conversations with other customers), although they specialize in Euros.  The shop is primilarily a "by-the-book", certified auto repair and maintenance shop, and their foucs is on your standard daily drivers.  I believe I am the very few modified cars that enter that shop.  In fact, the numerous times I've been there, I was the ONLY modified car in the shop (they have five (5) lifts, two (2) spare bays and approximately eight (8) parking stalls).  My suspicion would be that the shop's (and owner's) preference would be to have a properly, OEM spec'd vehicle that operates ONLY as intended.  Well, what would be the point in that?!?!  LOL.

And I think he was just tired of "dealing" with my modified "ricer".  LOL   Good shop, good people; they're just not tailored for modified vehicles.  I plan to take my business elsewhere from this point forward.

[HEcreated487]

Also, I wanted to report another issue.  On certain roads, my car will have the "fish tailing" affect i.e. the car's rear end, and overally body, literally shifts from left to right about four times.  It is very noticeable.  It's the same roads each day.  One patch of road is on the highway, so having that very noticeable swaying at highway speeds is extremely nerve racking and potentially unsafe, especially when trying to keep the car steady and straight.

What would be culpit of this?  Tires again?  The camber settings?  Inadequate rear sway bar (i.e. the rear is stock, but could be upgraded to the TL-S rear sway bar)?  It makes me think that this wheel and tire setup is not worth all this work and headache.

Thanks in advance.

[alpha]

It could be a combination of the camber and the tires.  The negative camber decreases the amount of tire contact patch; which is why it is important to have quality tires when running a setup like this.

Does it start at the rear, and then momentum travels foward?  Or does the whole car shift at the same time?  You might be able to play with damping settings to lessen the affect.

[HEcreated487]

Yes, the swaying does begin at the rear and its momentum travels forward.  Great question Mark.   The entire car shifts at the same time.  It can be described similar to as if someone was to stand next to your car near the C-Pillar and would forcefully move the car left to right a few times via pushing.  I hope that makes sense.

Again, the sh!tty tires, combined with somewhat aggressive camber, may be the source.  FML.  LOL.

[alpha]

Yes, the swaying does begin at the rear and its momentum travels forward.  Great question Mark.   The entire car shifts at the same time.  It can be described similar to as if someone was to stand next to your car near the C-Pillar and would forcefully move the car left to right a few times via pushing.  I hope that makes sense.

Again, the sh!tty tires, combined with somewhat aggressive camber, may be the source.  FML.  LOL.

If you can, try and soften your rebound settings.  My suspicion is that either the spring is not compressing enough and then the rebound effect is causing it to jump a little, or the rebound is too stiff that it is rebounding too quickly.

But until you can figure out exactly what is the culprit, take it slow.  You may need to raise the car for now to lessen the camber so you can get more contact patch to safely ride on those tires.

[HEcreated487]

Thanks Mark.  Here are my suspension settings, for reference:

• AMR Coilovers, Skunk2 Front UCA Camber Kit, J-Power (Ingalls replica) rear camber kit
• Replaced HyperCo springs with Swift Springs
• OLD HyperCo Springs: 10K Front | 8K Rear | 65mm ID | 8" Length
  
• NEW Swift Springs: 12K Front | 6K Rear | 65mm ID | 9" Length
  
• Dampening settings: 7/8 clicks Front | 5/8 clicks rear.  1 = Full Soft.  8 = Full Stiff.

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Maybe I'll raise it a good inch and run mexipoke with -1° to -2° camber all around.    Increasing the tires' contact patch is definitely my goal.  I do plan to check the spring preload at all corners since I'm at it.