apexi afc neo

[timot_one]

I don't believe it is.  That's why I'm using a RSX Type S a/f sensor instead of the OEM Accord one.

[BlK24a8]

For that price you could spend another 100 more and pick up a E-mange ultimate. I looked into these myself but the ultimate can do a little more from what I have seen. Being one of the k24a8 guys if our only option for a tune was a piggy back because well k-pro has not been adapted and worse case F-pro doesn't work I would say we should look into the ultimate. There is another option but I'm still trying to research it a little. I'm not sure the apexi afc would really do anything for the a8? For that we could just get a FMU the old school way and try that out lol. If it comes down tot use having to use a piggy back I get that gut feeling the ultimate would be best. K-pro and alike can kiss my grits!(this only stands until a hondata product works on the a8)

[thisaznboi88]

i checked out the e-manage ultimate also. The one thing that piss me off is everything little thing cost extra... lol but yeah i hope you a8 guys do find a fully ems instead of a piggy back.

[BlK24a8]

A full ems would be great but I get that odd feeling that is not as close as we all might hope. Bryan/Paul please prove me wrong lol. Either way pretty good fine, for a tuner on a budget or running low boost I think it was a sweet find. I'm curious since you said you where looking at piggy backs and what not. From what you saw what did you think would be the best option as far as they go? Just a little something I found...oh yea if you read it go ahead and check out the supported vehicles. Skip/Timot one I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this the most.

http://www.haltech.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=22

[Skippy]

The haltech interceptor has proven to work with 7th gens, but its use only serves to prove my theory that hondata engine management is superior to any other EMS on the market.  

A fellow by the name of Jason in Florida had a 7th gen with a turbo kit and he used the Haltech interceptor.  This was either before or around the same time as Mike Sedacca was on Kpro with his swap and a rudimentary tune.

Jason used the Racing technology co. turbo kit and the Haltech EMS, while Mike used a kit he pieced together himself, along with one of Cham's first harnesses and a Hondata Kpro.  Mike and Jason got together for a couple of dyno pulls, and Mike's car beat out Jason's by quite a bit of power, and that was before Mase re-tuned his cam angles to net him more power.  Mike's car at peak produces 303whp at around 9PSI, while Jason's put out somewhere around 240-270 (I do not recall the exact numbers at this time).  Mike was able to achieve higher gains under less boost pressure with a kit that was purchased in pieces..as compared to an individual who purchased a $5000 kit with included EMS.  I'm pretty sure Mike's kit cost less than Jason's.

In short, yes it will work, and it has been proven to work in 7th gens.  Is it better than a Hondata EMS? No.

Most people think that I'm just a hondata fanboy..and that really isn't the case.  I've said this before and I'll say it again...Hondata holds a monopoly in the market since their Kpro EMS is capable of controlling VTC.  If you cannot control VTC, you are not making as much power as you could be making.  I will admit that research has shown VTC to be a hamper on super expensive gonad jarring uber-builds, but at that point, after $10,000 in engine modifications, you enter an entirely new echelon of engine management altogether.

For the non-super expensive gonad jarring uber-builds, proper VTC tuning is critical to achieving the best power output.  My famous quote for this situation is such:

You could have two identical RSX-S's built with the exact same go-fast parts (N/A, FI, N2O, etc) and if they varied ONLY in the respect that one had a Hondata Kpro, while the other used any other commercially available EMS....the Kpro equipped vehicle would run circles around the other car from dawn till dusk, in the snow, on 3 cylinders, in reverse, with no engine oil, in the dark, with the driver wearing a blindfold and playing tic-tac-toe with a passenger in the back seat.  

Any EMS can control fuel and ignition maps..but no other EMS can control VTC.

[thisaznboi88]

well said skippy, but I believe that hondata is only good if you plan to do major work to the car such as turbo, supercharger, cams, and headswap. But if for the people who just have full bolt on and don't plan to do anything else kpro might not be an smart option since they will be limiting the full potential of the kpro unit.

If anyone else have any experience with other tuning option feel free to chime in, and give us some insight from your experience.

[Skippy]

Ken, you are correct but I'd like to emphasize the fact that you are speaking about Kpro in terms of the Accord only.  Our gains with a stock motor are miniscule when compared with a true VTEC K series engine.  Yes, it is quite expensive for the few horses you'd gain with a K24a4, but for the 20+ whp you'd gain above baseline with a stock K20a2, it's different.  Compounded with bolt-ons, those motors can push upwards of 50-60whp over stock, whereas our gains are sharply less.

I speak of Kpro both from the standpoint of the Accord, and the other K series apps out there.  You are correct that people considering Kpro should be 95% sure that their projected output will be over 250whp to justify the cost of the EMS, and it is not really economical to use it on internally stock non-force-fed K24a4's.  I mainly wanted to highlight the stark differences in output between a pre-fabbed turbo kit with bundled EMS vs. a home-brewed turbo kit with a hondata Kpro.

[thisaznboi88]

yeah i totally understand.

[Icebox]

go big or go home, hondata is the only true tuning solution for us.

[BlK24a8]

Skippy your my hero! DO you hear me my hero lol. I have spoke with you on many occasions through pm on over a thread on this forum and the old gen 7. I agree 100% with k-pro being the best on the market for k-series motors. Keep in mind I gave that link for the a8 guys out there like myself. Bryan/Paul may possibly crack the code on the motor, but I just posted it up for a piggy back solution to our motors(the thread was about piggy backs?). I just wanted to share some information I came across, throw it out there and see what people think. K-pro I think is best used in motors that have 250whp+. don't get me wrong if your going to boost 240whp and below I'm not saying you should use a piggy back but I think you can do that if you do it right and be safe. You could go the k-pro route but you pay all that money for something that will have less then 250whp?

Skip I do know who your talking about. He lived in FL and did go the RTC kit route. He made roughly 294whp. There was a difference between his set-up and Mike's but there was not that big of a difference. Jason had a high flow cat as well where as I don't think mike did?

[MyNameIsThien]

You K-series guys are lucky. J-series get no love at all.

[timot_one]

I'm sure I said it before, but I'll say it again.  When it comes to people that have bolt ons, you will benefit from a piggyback or K-Pro, but the gains don't justify the expense.  If you want to build your motor or boost it, you can also use a piggyback, but you will see the most gains from using K-Pro.  It is my opinion, but for anyone that has something as mild as cams to someone that has a fully built motor that's boosted, K-Pro is the best and only option.  I ran K-Pro on my car with bolt ons and completely stock internals to test the harness for reliability and there were gains.  I also did this because I have always had plans of building a motor.  Like Skippy has said multiple times, do it right the first time instead of making the costly mistake of half assing it first.

[Jeff Likes Bagels]

Case and point, lol.

So, if i were to stick to only bolt-ons, i might as well just forget about any flashing, right?

[Icebox]

in my opinion there is no need for any kind of ecu mod unless you have either changed your internals or boosted the motor.

[Jeff Likes Bagels]

Right. This thread provided some excellent advice as far as tuning/flashing goes.