ECM Sports Bar

[ikethegreat]

Wait so your calling Garcon and Collie "star players"?  GTFO of here lol.  I'll give it to you that Wayne is an awesome receiver but that's about it.  Blair White, Jacob Tamme, and Taj Smith are all either 4th stringers or practice squad players!  The Colts have an absolutely nonexistent running game.  They are starting their 4th string RB James.  

I'd like to see Brady playing with mostly 3rd-4th stringers and practice squad players and see how elite he looks.   Plus the Colts defense is pretty horrible and just like the running game, has always been pretty bad.  

Manning and his offense is the only reason the Colts have been the powerhouse they have been all these years.  By the time this guy retires, he will own all the major QB records.

Position on passing statistics leaderboards:

Manning is currently on pace to break the career records in every major statistical category for a quarterback, including most career passing touchdowns, most career completions, and most career passing yards.Manning is currently ranked in the top four in all of these categories:

   * Touchdown Passes: 390 (3rd)
    * Passes Completed: 4,585 (3rd)
    * Passing Yards: 53,837 (3rd)
    * Passer Rating: 94.8 (5th)
    * Passing Yards per Game: 263.9 (1st)
    * Completion Percentage: 64.9% (5th)


Plus lets talk about durability.  Manning has started all 16 games for the past 12 seasons.  Has Brady even came close to that?  Nope. Plus in 10 of Manning's 12 season, he has lead the Colts to 10 or more wins.  Can Brady say that?

And what happen when Brady went down with the bum leg?  Cassel took the Pats to an 11-5 record....A QB that never even played college football and in his first ever start!  You could put any scrub in at QB and the Pats will win.  

Here are some of Manning's current records:

Regular season

   * Highest passer rating, season: 121.1 (2004)
    * Most seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards: 10 (1999–2004, 2006–2009)
    * Most consecutive seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards: 6 (1999–2004)
    * Most consecutive seasons with at least 20 touchdown passes: 13 (1998–2010; current)
    * Most consecutive seasons with at least 25 touchdown passes: 12 (1998–2009; current)
    * Most games with a perfect passer rating, career: 4 (includes 1 playoff game)
    * Most consecutive games started to open a career by a quarterback: 204 (current)
    * Most consecutive games with at least 2 touchdown passes: 13 (games 1–13, 2004)
    * Most consecutive games with at least 4 touchdown passes: 5 (games 7–11, 2004)
    * Most games with at least 4 touchdown passes, season: 6 (2004; tied with 1984 Marino)
    * Most games with at least 4 touchdown passes, career: 24 (includes 2 playoff games; tied with Brett Favre)
    * Most games with at least 5 touchdown passes, career: 7 (includes 1 playoff game)
    * One of only seven QBs with at least 6 touchdown passes in two games
    * Most career touchdown passes in Thursday games: 23
    * Most touchdown passes on a Thursday game: 6
    * Largest career TD-INT differential: 194
    * Highest career passing TDs/game average (min. 150 TD passes): 1.91 TDs/game
    * Highest career passing yards/game average: 263.9
    * Highest career completions/game average (min. 100 games played): 22.5
    * Most consecutive games with a passer rating over 100: 9 (games 5–13 of 2004 season; record tied by Carson Palmer, 2004–05 and Tom Brady, 2006–07)
    * Highest completion percentage by a QB in one month in NFL history (min. 75 attempts): 81.8% (December 2008)
    * Most career games with a completion percentage of 70% or higher (min. 10 attempts): 64
    * Most consecutive regular season wins as a starter: 23 (2008–2009)
    * Most seasons with 10+ wins as a starter (regular season only): 10 (1999–2000, 2002–2009)
    * Most seasons with 12+ wins as a starter (regular season only): 8 (1999, 2003–2009)
    * Only QB with at least 12 wins as a starter in 7 consecutive seasons (2003–2009)
    * Only QB with eight straight seasons of 10+ wins as a starter (2002–2009)
    * Only QB to lead five consecutive 4th quarter comeback wins (games 7–11, 2009)
    * Most fourth quarter comeback wins in one season: 7 (2009)
    * First QB to defeat the other 31 teams in the regular season
    * Most wins as a starting QB in a decade, regular season only: 115 (2000s)
    * Most wins as a starting QB in a decade, regular & postseason: 124 (2000s)
    * Most AP NFL MVP Awards: 4 (2003, 2004, 2008, 2009)
    * Most Touchdown Passes in a decade: 314 (2000s)

Playoff records

   * Most 300+ yard passing games: 8
    * Most 400+ yard passing games: 2
    * Most yards passing, 1st half of game: 360 vs. Denver Broncos, 1/9/05
    * Led the biggest comeback in conference championship game history (18 pts), 1/21/07 vs. New England
    * One of only four QBs to post a perfect 158.3 passer rating in a game (Don Meredith, Terry Bradshaw, Dave Krieg)
    * Most games with 20+ completions: 14
    * Most games with 30+ completions: 4
    * Most games with 30+ attempts: 17
    * Most games with 40+ attempts: 8
    * Most completions and attempts in a single postseason: 97/153 (2006)
    * One of only 2 quarterbacks to complete 80% of his passes in two playoff games
    * Most consecutive postseasons with at least one start: 8

Rookie records

   * Most passing attempts: 575
    * Most completions: 326
    * Most passing yards: 3,739
    * Most touchdown passes: 26
    * Most consecutive games with a touchdown pass (games 4–16): 13
    * Most games with at least one touchdown pass: 15
    * Most games with 300+ yards passing: 4



If you can read all that and still look me in the eye and try to tell me Brady is better than Manning, then sir, I would love to have some of the shit you're smoking.

[Mike]

Brady is better. He wins when it matters, and Manning generally doesnt. You just don't want to see it so you dont. Going into this season you told me that Pats were going to be garbage, and this and that. Subsequently leading up to alot of these games you told me the Pats were going to lose. Moss got tradeed, and I was supposed to kiss the playoff chances good bye. Do you see why I feel your opinion is meaningless. Brady is the better player. If you want to look at the players we can go there.

When are you going to realize that STATS MEAN NOTHING... It's like buying a house becuase it's pretty but, finding out the foundation and roof need to be replaced.

[ikethegreat]

So I give you facts and you give me opinions.  I win.  

[ikethegreat]

I'd also be willing to bet you as much as you'd like that the Pats WILL NOT win the Superbowl this year. 

[Mike]

The Colts won't either, and it's not opinion look at there records in the playoff brother it speaks for it self.

Brady is 14 - 4 in the playoffs, and Manning is 9 - 18 that should tell you something...

[ikethegreat]

1. Never said the Colts were going to win the Superbowl, just that the Pats won't.
2. If you actually look, the stats are split between Regular season, Postseason, and Rookie season.

[Mike]

You left out that he's 9-18 while Brady is 14 - 4 think what you want I'll continue to root for a winner. I think Manning is overrated, and benefied from the players around him. You can't tell me the colts didn't have more talented players. This year its even pretty close. Branch, Tate, Hernandez, Gronkoski, Garvis Green Ellis are not star players. As far as winning the superbowl who knows New England is doing far better than anyone thought they would, and you can't tell me that they haven't been better without Moss.

[ikethegreat]

I don't understand your definition of a star player.  If you perform well, have good stats, and make good plays, that makes you a star player right?  How can you say New England doesn't have star players?  Just because a few of them didn't perform well on other teams?

My argument once again is...

And what happen when Brady went down with the bum leg?  Cassel took the Pats to an 11-5 record....A QB that never even played college football and in his first ever start!  You could put any scrub in at QB and the Pats will win. 

Until you can explain that one, your argument just isn't valid. 

[Mike]

There is no argument Brady > Manning. NE > Indy. Think what you want thats where I'm at. Mr. Manning better hurry up and remove his head from his ass or he's not even going to make the playoffs. I think they will, and probably do well but, they are def. in trouble right now.

[ikethegreat]

So if Brady is so good how did Cassel do just as well in his spot?  You're not trying to say you think Cassel and Brady are on the same level are you?  I'm just not following your logic (or lack of) here. 

[ikethegreat]

Or are you going to sidestep the question...again...

[status]

dudes mvp this season is Vick or Big Ben, dude ben was awesome on sunday.

[Mike]

Brady will win MVP if New England wins 12 games. They didn't make the playoffs that season IKE thats not successfull. All the matters at the end of the day is if you won the championship or not. You can throw out all the other Bullshit stat's(I can give you just as long a list of Bradys accomplishments) and count superbowls, and wins vs. losses in games played including the playoffs. What good is having a guy with great stats if he doesn't fucking win! Do you not get it! The logic is victories and championships!

[ikethegreat]

There's more to a QB than the number of Superbowls he has won.  When the Ravens won the Superbowl they had fucking Trent Dilfer.  Are you trying to say Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Flacco, Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, etc. just because they haven't won a Superbowl?  That makes absolutely no sense.  While Superbowl wins are great, they fall more on the entire team than just the QB. 

[Mike]

Manning chokes in the playoffs dude thats what I'm telling you! Look at the decline between playoff stats compared to regular season stats, and we haven't even looked at the fact that he plays in a dome while the guy your comparing him to plays in the cold, and snow. Your have your opinion I have mine. If I were building a team I would take Brady over Manning hands down, and this will probably surprise you but, I'd probably take Rogers over Brady. Your right about championships being a team thing also but, in all the years the Patriots won the superbowl I would say the Colts had more talent, and still lost!