Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs

[HEcreated487]

Bought a set of USED AMRs with approximately 10K miles on them.  Have had them installed since 23 Sept. 2012.  Spring rates are 10K front / 8K rear, manufactured by HyperCo.

From initial install (and over this past week), I noticed that the ride quality has been fairly stiff and bouncy (not "floating-boat, I-just-cut-my-cut-my-OEM-springs" bouncy, but more like "sudden, jolty ride" bouncy.  I can definitely feel every single deviation in the road (even the smallest of road imperfections), a shortened frequency of shock oscillation and minimal movement of the shock piston.  I am aware that it is most likely due to the monotube shock design and operation, and slightly from stiffer springs (just uninstalled Tein Basics from a CL9 with spring rates 9K front / 6K rear, twin-tube shock absorber).

So I contacted AMR to reconfirm the preload settings.  Re-adjusted the the preload as recommended by AMR (i.e. "2.5 full rotations once [the collar/top hat] puts pressure on the spring") on 28 Sept. 2012.  Set my dampening settings (from full soft) to five (5) clicks front / one (1) click rear.  Same settings as of 01 Oct. 2012.  To clarify, I had the originally adjusted the preload settings while off the car (before install) and definitely added waaaaaaaay too much preload beyond AMR's recommendation.  When I did the re-adjustment, I had everything already installed on the car.  There is the possibility that I still have too much preload, although I am unsure of this.

Please note that I have done my research beforehand and read the following links, along with a bunch of other info:

http://www.tein.co.jp/e/special/ni_toryu/index.html

http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/heeltoe-automotive/49186-tein-ht-spec-megan-h-r-what-coilovers-should-you-get.html

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/6th-generation-honda-accord-1998-2002/204445-my-unbiased-review-amr-engineering-their-coilovers.html

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/7g-wheels-tires-suspension-discussion/206983-amr-coilovers-short-review.html

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/7th-generation-honda-accord-2003-2007/210614-whats-your-favorite-coilovers.html

Key Points:

• I chose AMR due to the quality in materials and manufacturing, performance reputation (i.e. no blown shocks for 7+ years), lifetime warranty (if purchased brand new) and good customer service (for me at least, others may have other opinions).  IMO, I feel the monotube damper would not be an issue for a daily driver if set up properly ...
• Per the first link, monotube shocks are definitely stiffer than Twin-Tube due to the overall construction and operation of the shock.  As such, Tein recommends monotube for track and twin-tube for the street.
• Tein states,

  TEIN has a great volume of "know-how" on both mono-tube and twin-tube, accumulated over the years of experience, which enables us to provide mono-tube shock absorbers with European-car-like comfort and/or twin-tube shocks which can win the Nürburgring 24Hour Race.

  Definitely looking for that european comfort out of a monotube shock design.
• Other AMR owners have attested to fairly good ride quality, so I believe there is still more improvement to be had on my setup.  Or, it may be that my subjective opinion of ride quality just differs from others.

In summary, the ride quality is fairly good (say 6.5-7/10).  Still seeking any insight to "bettering" the ride comfort/quality and any recommendations in doing so would be appreciated.  Thanks all.

[timot_one]

I don't know much about suspension tuning, or the set up you have.  Do they have adjustable damping?

[HEcreated487]

Yes, they have 8 clicks of dampening. I've done quite a few adjustments to the dampening to find settings that provide a reasonable ride comfort. No such luck, unfortunately. I have an idea on what direction I want to test. Will write about soon.

[timot_one]

I've heard that if you stiffen up the damping, it will help improve the ride.

[alpha]

How many damping adjustments do you have?  One, two, or three?

Do you know details of the shock valving?

[HEcreated487]

Just one dampening adjustment for rebound only, Mark. Dampening knob at the top of the shock. Not sure on the details on the internals (valve size, factory gas chamber pressure, etc.) I could definitely ask. What info were you thinking?

[HEcreated487]

More adjustments made.

On Saturday, I decided to set both the front and rear to full stiff.  The ride was still "jolty", but not unbearable.  In comparison to the previous settings (5 clicks front, 3 clicks rear), this proved to be equal or a little better in ride quality (based on my scientifically proven subjective opinion. ... Talk about oxymoron).  From this, I have decided that no matter what settings the shocks are set to, the difference in ride is only marginally different.  My conclusion is that I have to change springs.

In comparing other suspension set ups known for fairly comfortable ride quality, I made the following table:

• Tein Comfort Sport (for the CL9 TSX)
  
• 7K front / 4K rear
• MONO-TUBE
  
• Supposedly a more comfortable ride quality than stock.
• I would like to achieve something similar to this, but not as soft.
• Buddy Club N+ (For the CL9 TSX)
  
• 11K front / 4K rear
• Mono-tube
• Known to be a little too soft in the rear.
• Ground Control (Off-the-Shelf rates) w/ Koni Yellows.
  
• 8K front / 5.4K rear
• Twin-Tube??
• Known to have a great ride quality (and warranty )
• Tein Street Basis or Street Advance
  
• 9K front / 6K rear
• Twin Tube
• I already had the Tein Basics from a TSX with these exact rates.  Ride was slightly stiffer than stock.  Wouldn't mind this ride quality either.
• Tein H-Tech
  
• 5.4K front / 4K rear
• I already had these springs on stock shocks.  No noticeable difference in ride quality compared to stock.  Wouldn't mind this ride quality either.

.
I plan to order some 6K replacemnet springs (HyperCo or Swift) for the rear and possibly moving the current 8K rear springs to the front.  I also plan to dig up some old dynamics textbooks to further research into spring rates, compression, rebound, dampening, oscillation, frequency, period, etc.

[alpha]

Just one dampening adjustment for rebound only, Mark. Dampening knob at the top of the shock. Not sure on the details on the internals (valve size, factory gas chamber pressure, etc.) I could definitely ask. What info were you thinking?

Dang.. so you don't really have much to play with in terms of compression settings.

Honestly, they probably won't tell you the details of the shock design.  I was mostly interested in hearing if they published compression/rebound valving numbers.

Comparing spring rates with other manufacturers is moot, as the way the shock is designed could make the primary difference; but trying different springs may still help, as there is the possibility that the spring is too stiff for the shock and not allowing the shock to compress.  It could be an issue of the ratio between compression force and spring rate.

I would also be concerned if the compression valving of the shock is too stiff.  You may not have enough unsprung weight to compress the shock.

[HEcreated487]

Thx Mark.  Yeah, the unsprung weight could be an issue.  Input from other sources have stated that the rear of the vehicle may be too light for that combination of spring rate and the monotube damper with large valve.  I figured revalving is an option, but I am attempting to be cost effective in increasing the ride quality.  If there is a way to adjust it, that would be great... but if not, I'd be SOL.  Worst case:  I sell and get something different.

By the way, when I dissassembled the entire assembly prior to the initial installation, there was another knob/port at the base of the shock.  I hadn't adjusted anything on that, but figured that may be the port for the gas chamber??

[alpha]

Thx Mark.  Yeah, the unsprung weight could be an issue.  Input from other sources have stated that the rear of the vehicle may be too light for that combination of spring rate and the monotube damper with large valve.  I figured revalving is an option, but I am attempting to be cost effective in increasing the ride quality.  If there is a way to adjust it, that would be great... but if not, I'd be SOL.  Worst case:  I sell and get something different.

By the way, when I dissassembled the entire assembly prior to the initial installation, there was another knob/port at the base of the shock.  I hadn't adjusted anything on that, but figured that may be the port for the gas chamber??

Re-valving is always an option, but unless you are dead set on having these be your coilovers, then I'm not sure the cost will be worth it.

Springs are cheap enough to give a lower spring rate a try; but as I previously stated, if the compression valving is too stiff, then softer springs may make a marginal difference.  Just something to be prepared for; and if that is the case, then you always have to option of finding a different set of coilovers.  If softer springs fixes it, then great.

As for the bottom knob, not sure.  AMR's website doesn't indicate anything other than rebound adjustment, so I would contact them before making any adjustments to that knob.

[HEcreated487]

I think I would be "set" on these coils because of the company's history of not having a failure in.... well, never.  That's what they claim anyway.  Haven't read anything to show otherwise.

Agree that purchasing replacement springs is a relatively inexpensive route compared to revalving.  If anything, I'm probably leaning towards the GC/Koni setup.  Decent OTS spring rates and excellent warranty.  Can't really beat that.

Reading up a little on "over dampening" in damped harmonic oscillators / systems.  Hopefully more research can assist in my quest for comfort.  

[HEcreated487]

Was originally planning to purchase replacement springs with a 12K front / 7K rear spring rate setup (i.e. identical to the JIC Magic FLT-TAR coilovers, Model #UC1FLTA), but am considering a 14K front / 4k rear spring rate setup for a few reasons.

1) Occassionally I "knock" my front UCA on my front shock tower/wheel well at my current ride height.  I am hoping the increase spring rate will effectively eliminate this occurrence, especially if I decide to go lower  
2) As mentioned previously, the rear spring rate dictates much of the ride quality.  I confirmed with AMR that the dampers should have no issues, nor require revalving, with a spring rate change of +/- 4K.  I am hoping this provides an increase in ride comfort.  I am a little hesitant with such a soft spring rate, but it is worth a shot for the price I am looking at.
3) I found some really good deals on the 14K / 4K spring rates mentioned above, so am tempted to at least try them out.  I'll most likely try the rear pair of springs for the time being.

Your insight would be appreciated.  Thanks!

[timot_one]

Was originally planning to purchase replacement springs with a 12K front / 7K rear spring rate setup (i.e. identical to the JIC Magic FLT-TAR coilovers, Model #UC1FLTA), but am considering a 14K front / 4k rear spring rate setup for a few reasons.

1) Occassionally I "knock" my front UCA on my front shock tower/wheel well at my current ride height.  I am hoping the increase spring rate will effectively eliminate this occurrence, especially if I decide to go lower 
2) As mentioned previously, the rear spring rate dictates much of the ride quality.  I confirmed with AMR that the dampers should have no issues, nor require revalving, with a spring rate change of +/- 4K.  I am hoping this provides an increase in ride comfort.  I am a little hesitant with such a soft spring rate, but it is worth a shot for the price I am looking at.
3) I found some really good deals on the 14K / 4K spring rates mentioned above, so am tempted to at least try them out.  I'll most likely try the rear pair of springs for the time being.

Your insight would be appreciated.  Thanks!

Do you have the Ingalls front camber kit?

[HEcreated487]

Junk2 UCA, Tim. 

[timot_one]

Okay.  I know the Ingalls ones are a lot taller and have a tendency to hit even at normal ride heights.  I'm about to swap mine out to Hard Race UCA's.  Sucks to hear the Skunk2's are well....


.....junk.