Difference in color between front and rear valve sets

[quickkick127]

Hey guys, felt like doing a little tune up to the accord yesterday so my buddy and I adjusted the valves.  I'm only at 65k but I could tell the valves were a little more noisy than two years ago.  The job itself was actually really easy (my first attempt at any kind of motor work). Honda made the job a lot easier with the little sight glass on the side of the cam that tells you which cylinder is at the top.  Either way, when I removed both valve covers I noticed that the front set of valves were real dark with a think oil appearance while the rear set looked like a healthy bronze color.  Is this a sign of something?  I know the gromet for the middle spark plug tube was leaking around the valve cover slightly on that side, not sure if that pertains to this problem or not.  Just wanted to check with you guys who know more about the inner working than I do if I should be worried about something.  Also, the oil was just changed last weekend, ~300miles ago.

[timot_one]

There's nothing wrong man. The intake and exhaust valve seals are different in color. I believe the exhaust valve seals have the darker spring and the intake valve seals have the lighter spring. I have some brand new valve seals at home. I'll take a pic to show the differences.

[quickkick127]

Sorry I wasn't talking about intake valves vs exhaust valves.  You take the front valve cover off and everything in there, intake and exhaust valves are dark and coated with thick old looking oil.  Now when I took off the rear valve cover, the entire set up looked a lot cleaner and bronze in color.  Let me see if any pictures show the difference.

[quickkick127]

Sorry the quality isn't that great and that the pictures barely show what I am talking about but they weren't taken to show the difference.  From these you can see a slight difference between the front and rear.

[CrackerTeg]

In the first pic, you can definitely see the difference. I honestly couldn't tell you why one bank is dirtier. Aside from adjusting your valves, did you notice any deterioration in performance?

[quickkick127]

Well, no I didn't notice any decline i performance but it probably would be so gradual that I couldn't have noticed.  Though the car does seem to accelerate quite a bit smoother and harder.  The adjustments made to the valves were all pretty minor.  Other than fixing a few small leaks in the front valve cover with the new gasket sets, the PCV valve was replaced and appeared to be clogged or bad.  The IM was really dirty, a bunch of black flakes and gunk gathered in corners.  The front section of the IM near the throttle body, the EGR section I'm guessing was especially dirty.  Everything was solid black in that chamber.  I cleaned everything out before reinstalling.  So the improved acceleration feel could be from the valves being adjusted, the new pcv or the cleaned out IM, or all of them.  Thats about all I noticed when doing the job, not sure if that gives you any idea of what could be the cause.

[CrackerTeg]

Not at all. I wish I knew the J series a bit better but I'm inclined to believe that you really don't have anything to worry about. Don't quote me on that though.

[quickkick127]

Well the front set was where the pcv valve was and it was not working properly.  Would that cause something like this?

[timot_one]

How was the PCV not working properly?  Was it stuck open or was it clogged?  If it was open, then I would suspect that may be the reason why your front head was covered with oil.  Just like Z, I don't know the J Series motors very well, so I'm not experienced enough to give advice.  It may be nothing, or it may be a problem.  Your best bet is to talk to Paul, since he is the one person that knows a lot about J Series motors.

I can also talk to a buddy of mine who is a Honda tech and loves J Series motors.

[quickkick127]

I'm not certain in what way the pcv wasn't working(stuck open or stuck closed) but you could tell the bearing wasn't moving at all like the new one was.  The pcv valve is completely different from any I've seen before.  Both my buddy, a mechanic at a local shop, and the tech at Honda when I bought the valve were really interested in it as they've never seen anything like it before.  I'm sure I could've sprayed carb cleaner in it and it probably would have been fine but I like having new part, no matter how small.  If I can find it in the trash I'll try to see if I can blow through it or not.  I was hoping it had something to do with the pcv because my buddy said that was probably the reason why I had a tiny leak around the middle spark plug since the pvc wasn't releasing the pressure and that was the weakest point.  Based on that theory, the pvc would have been stuck closed. 

If Paul has time to respond to this, great, otherwise I don't want to bother him cause it seems like he's always busy and I'd rather him spend his time working on more goodies for the J series.

[timot_one]

I wish I knew J's as well as I know K's.  With the K series, there are passages between the head and the block, so the valve cover and crank case aren't sealed from each other and any blow by that passes into the crank case can vent through the PCV and through the opening on the head.  I don't know if it's the same with the J though. 

I don't think your friend's logic is solid though.  The PCV is to vent blow by gasses in the crank case.  I highly doubt a stuck PCV would prevent blow by in the crank case.  The leak around the middle spark plug is probably because it wasn't torqued properly or it wasn't seated properly allowing the leak.  You may want to check that spark plug and make sure there isn't any damage.

[quickkick127]

The plug wasn't damaged or anything.  Only the coil pack had a little build up on it and the metal on the shaft of the coil pack was a little rusted.  It all cleaned up real quick with some emory cloth.  I first noticed the dirty coil pack a year ago when I changed the plugs and cleaned it then and now I finally found out why it was dirtier than the others.  As for the valve cover not being torqued correctly, I should have been the first one to take the valve cover off of the car.  That would be how it came from the factory.

I'm not really sure what to make of any of this.  Like I said, this was my first hands on experience of the internals of a engine.  I'll just be sure to pull my pcv valve often and make sure its clean.  It's as simple as one bolt on the front valve cover. Hopefully thats the only issue there really was, aside from the bad seals.

[timot_one]

I mean that the spark plug wasn't torqued properly.  I'll talk to my buddy about this and see what he has to say.

[timot_one]

I just talked to a buddy of mine who is a Honda tech.  He said that the oil build up happens from the IM being dirty like you described and some of the passages being clogged.

[quickkick127]

In regards to the spark plug, it was leaking at the valve cover where the gromet goes around the spark plug tube, not down at the plug... The plug itself was completely clean and fine.

I know you're not a J series guy but I can't be certain I would have cleaned everything that could have been clogged. 



Obviously I cleaned the intake runners by using carb cleaner and shooting it down from the top and up from the underside.  If you look at the picture, the very front portion of the IM by the throttle body is segregated and was much dirtier.  It came much cleaner but not perfect.  If you look at the lower left hand corner of the picture, that wavy tube like thing get bolted inside that segregated area as well.  It runs straight through and has a whole in the center that corresponds to a whole in the IM that was really built up with something resembling rust. (you can see half of the hole in the picture in the center of the segregated portion)  That stuff there was all I cleaned.  I don't know whats on either side of the tube like thing or if any of the passages back there are small enough in diameter to get clogged.

I was a little rushed on the clean up of the IM... Maybe I should find another excuse to rip it off and give it a more detailed cleaning....