Re: k20a2 head on k24a8

[BliNx197]

^Really? How can they? I mean does it involve retarding ignition timing? Im using the F/IC, very interested in this to be honest!

[Skippy]

What's so strange about it? Piggybacks can control VTEC because they tap into the wiring harness.  If it's honda specific, it should be able to control VTEC...but it's an AEM EMS so you may not have the option..

I'm not sure about how the engine prepares for VTEC engagement, but I do know how it switches fuel maps back and forth.

[BliNx197]

^I thought Vtec was engaged through locking the rocker arm pins in place through oil pressure, and yes the piggyback is hooked into the wiring harness but its not like thats a normal function on cars universally and F/ICs arent exactly car specific,... either way if they can control Vtec why not Redline then? and as for the EMS I figure it would have a better chance of controlling Vtec since they are car specific. So I dont think they really can, atleast not the F/IC

[Skippy]

well now that I think about it...since the FIC is not honda specific, and it's not an EMS, then it cannot control VTEC or your redline since your stock ECU is still somewhat in control in the background.  

VTEC is indeed engaged by locking the rocker arm pins, but all you need for that to happen is voltage to energize the VTEC solenoid in order to direct that high pressure oil into the rocker arms.  The so called Ebay 'VTEC controllers' were merely a potentiometric device used to alter the VTEC engagement point that did not adjust the fuel maps from the low cam to the hi-cam which causes improper operation and an alternating lean/stoich or rich/stoich condition.

[BliNx197]

^ Skip is there anyway you know of to dissable the vtec solenoid without catching CEL and without Kpro? I was interested in ADIs idea with the ground down Cams and running Hi-lobe all the time,... then again that sounds like a kpro specific function,..

[Skippy]

I would highly suggest against going that route...Toda makes a VTEC and VTC killer setup that will essentially turn a K series into a non-VTEC B series with a million and one horsepower, but you'd need to do so much extensive work before doing any of those conversions that it is totally not worth it for a street car.

In addition, you are confusing a few K series concepts...

K24a4 VTEC engages at 2200 RPM, this means that as long as you're not stuck in traffic, you're in VTEC.  You cannot do a "VTEC killer" on a budget in this way.  Doing so doesn't even make sense because the K24a4 is in VTEC at virtually all times except for idle.  You're already running on the hi-cam at all times.

What you're thinking of is modifying a K20a2 to be VTEC-less.  Again, you cannot do this on a budget.  You need the special kit to convert the rocker arms properly, and a set of specially made camshafts to run without VTEC...not to mention the proper ECU to run it.  This will result in an erratic idle, utterly gutless low end, and a top end you'll never be able to use on the street.  This work precedes the amount of block-work you'd need to do since this modification will turn your motor into a high revving monster.  In other words...it will cost too much money and be virtually un-streetable once you've gotten it built.

The best idea for you would be to blow $3k on a TSX motor, and another $3k on a supercharger and be done with it.

[BliNx197]

The Accord k24 runs both valves off of the high lobe once vtec is engaged right? I understood all of this before and feel brain dead after moving away from N/A and going F/I, thanks in advance Skip

[timot_one]

Why would FI make anything different from a NA application when you're talking about VTEC engagement?

[Skippy]

whoa whoa whoa...you're FI now? When the f%ck did that happen?

[BliNx197]

Come on Skip! Check the Signature,.. JRSCs going in on the 29th and gonna be done the 2nd,

and Tim it makes a difference with what I research and what information I commit to memory is all, I used to have a great grasp on most info K-series worthy but now its kind of tough since I cancelled plans for a frank build back in January.

But yea scratch the previous question, I think Ima just do an a2 swap, no need to dig into OEM guts without Kpro anyways

[Skippy]

Well I saw "C-day 5.2.09" and I didn't know what it meant....i've also been rather distant from forums for the past month or so....still getting my bearings here.

[Mike]

Well I saw "C-day 5.2.09" and I didn't know what it meant....i've also been rather distant from forums for the past month or so....still getting my bearings here.

Good to have you back dropping the knowlege.

[BliNx197]

Naw I understand Skip, Im tryna get a small entourage to come with me to Ptuning that day so I can get tons of pics and videos, I figure Ill start a thread about S/Cing a k24a8 or just post in the Jackson Racing Supercharger thread once I gets my kicks for the weekend!

[wai_pang2]

This is very interesting to me because I've been thinking about reflash options for this vehicle. I have a 2005 Legacy gt with a stage 1 reflash but I didn't need to buy any EM units. My tuner was able to get into the ECU from the OBD ports on his lap top. He basically uploaded the the stage 1 maps and modified the timing  and upped the boost to 16 Lbs. we did a few runs before he let me go on my merry way. By the way, the 05 Legacy gt is DBW.

[timot_one]

There is a new product that Hondata is coming out with next month, FlashPro, which sounds similar to the reflash you had done with your Legacy through the OBDII Port.  I don't believe this is going to compatible with the 7th Gen Accord K24's because the Hondata information states the 06+ Civic Si has a different ECU architecture from ours and that it will only work with other Hondas and Acuras that are 07+.  It looks like the best tuning option for any K Series motor will still be KPro with a dual ECU harness.  For the DBW guys, a swap for a cable driven TB isn't that hard to do.  I also know that Cham should be able to get KPro to work with a DBW Accord if he had time to work with one.