EliteCM.net

Guys,

I'm reviving the old R&D inquiry that another member had started over on the old G7A.  I'm currently pre-R&D with Innovative about developing a performance engine mount kit for the K series Accords.  I am going to purchase an OEM mount kit for their R&D purposes and then it will only be a matter of time before we never need to replace engine mounts again.

Just a little background on the product...These mounts will be designed with hard urethane elements and they will greatly reduce engine movement, which will decrease power losses and reduce wheel hop and driveline shock.

Judging by Innovative's other kits, they will most likely come in a range of hardness (durometer).  The hardness will determine how much vibration is transferred to the chassis and the passenger compartment.  For our purposes, the street version of the kit should suffice, while those with radical setups might opt for the race hardness.

**JUST SO YOU KNOW..this product WILL increase cabin vibration at idle and when starting out in low gears.  You will feel noticible vibration in the cabin and this may aggravate existing rattle conditions.  The vibration is already noticible to most of you already...so just fair warning...it may not change much, or it may change a bit.  If you cannot handle the increased cabin vibration and passenger discomfort, do not place your name on the list.**

The kits usually run about $350 per set.  I have not been advised on the pricing for our mounts but I'd expect them to run similarly.

I'd like to get a serious interest list going.  Since I'm organizing this list for innovative, it's going to be completely BS-free.  Only add your name to the list if you're ready and willing to drop somewhere in the vicinity of that projected cost.  If you don't have the cash, don't put your name down.  I am in the very early stages of working with Innovative on this development so don't flip out if you can't commit right now...just be advised that I'm getting the ball rolling on the project and I'd like to serve Innovative with a list of people who definitely want this product.

I will be acquiring a set of OEM mounts for Innovative within the next couple of weeks, and then I'll have them sent out for R&D.

Lets get this party started.

1. Theskip
2. Msedacca
3. Timot_one
4. Icebox
5. Blinx197
6. Cstyleaccord
7. Neoryan7
8. Chemik (G7A)

I'd be interested in this, but my shit's too damn stock to make it worth my while. I would be down for it in the future though, so I'm not adding my name to the list. I am, however, throwing a free bump for interest in a hell of an opportunity for us CM owners to get quality aftermarket mounts.

It doesn't matter if your car is "too stock"....these mounts will probably NEVER break...which means that even if your car stays stock for the rest of its life....you'll NEVER have to replace another set of motor mounts EVER again...

LOL. This is true. But I still think my car is too damn stock for this to be worth my while. Once more engine mods are added, it WILL be worth my while.

what kind of timeline are we looking at for receiving these mounts?

I'm in, Race, Street whatever, tell me when and where. I've already blown through two front motor mounts and I would like to stop spending money. When, where, how much and I'm there Skip. We can even R+D it during the TSX tranny swap if you want. My cabin rattles as is with the Ingalls and other bracing materials that we put in.

Icebox - The timeline is non existent at this point.  Innovative needs to approve of the project, I have to purchase a set of mounts, send them out, and they need to design, build, and produce kits.  This entire process could take anywhere from next week to never depending on Innovative's scheduling.  Innovative has not advised me as to how many people need to be on-board for them to produce kits, and I will be emailing them shortly to discuss the details of our application.  As soon as I have more details I'll post up.

thanks skip, if it does happen you can count me in. if they need another car to test it, i'm interested as well.

I just sent an email to Innovative requesting more information; specifically the R&D process, pricing, testing, and a time line.  We'll see what they say.

Hopefully you'll have better luck with this than Sean over on V6p. He tried to get his started back in December and still nothing yet.

I'll be letting Cham and Kieth know about this one.  I know they'll be in!

I remember somebody starting an interest list but I emailed Innovative last week and seriously it was a matter of 15 minutes when I received a reply stating that all they required was a set of OEM mounts and then the process could start.  Get the word out people I want to get a big list so we can get these hotcakes made!

Innovative must know that there is interest since they have already developed a kit for the 7th gen V6 application.  I'm just psyched because my car might be an industry first :)

They are likely going to be too stiff for me (and I'm pretty broke right now) or I'd be interested.  How do you think these will compare to having a stiffy (on the stiffest setting) in terms of vibrations?

I currently have an ETD and it doesn't really up the vibration too much.  This will be a night and day experience.  You will most likely feel the engine vibration in your seats at idle.  You will also probably feel it more in the steering wheel as well.  On the up-side, you'll have smooth crisp shifting, and zero drivetrain shock.  If you shift very hard you'll probably see dashboard movement and feel shock through the cabin, but honestly....it is so worth it.  My buddy has the street mounts in his race car and for what it is....the experience is that much better.  Zero wheel hop, zero excess vibration when shifting hard...the car just moves.

what are the stiffness of these mounts? I sped read, JIC I missed it? oops re-read. So How long does the STIFF feeling present, has anyone seen near factory comfort using the improved mounts?

Every car is different...these haven't been tested or even designed yet so there's no conclusive way we're going to find out until my ass guinea-pigs them, assuming of course that Innovative gives me the pleasure of doing so.  If you visit innovative's site, you'll see that all of their kits run in 4 durometers from 60A to 95A so there is a range of stiffness that you can choose from.

Factory comfort will probably be out the window...you'll definitely be feeling increased vibration in the cabin...how much? That depends on the durometer, outside temperature, and engine temperature.

How aboutfor us J30A4 guys Skippy?

they are already available.

and count me in skip, put me on the list!

Here you go buddy.

Innovative Mounts 7th Gen Accord V6 Replacement Mount Kit (http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=10750)

Hmm...I wonder how livable the 60A Street bushings are and if they offer a big advantage over the stock mounts in terms of reducing wheel hop to make them worth the increased vibrations.  

Skippy, how hard is it to replace the motor mounts?  Do you think someone of my ability (or lack thereof) might be able to pull this off with the right tools?  My uncle has an engine puller and all that good stuff or should I just have a shop do it?  How much would you charge for this install next time I'm in FL lol?

Installing the mounts isn't a big deal except for the rear....the rear is a PITA.  The front and sides are not bad.  You could do it yourself if you have the engine lifted up.  If your uncle has an engine hoist that would help out greatly.  Attach the hoist, remove the front and side mounts, and then the rear mount shouldn't be that bad since you'll have the motor raised up from the hoist.

Although I want the upgrade, I can't legibly say I'd be ok w/ sacrificing comfort. Yes, some is reasonable. It's a more durable mount, great, but when the cabin looses comfort, the luxury of an accord is essentially lost. In the event that took place I could have bought a civic sedan, and saved 10K. Before I omit this product from my vocabulary I will stick around for reviews.

Since you already have a race car in the works, keep the mounts out of the Accord.

Hey Skip sorry Im late to this but put me on the list too! Id love to eliminate this wheel hop, Ingalls ETD isnt doin a lot for me and its almost fully tightened

Well put.

I may need a set, and tranny mounts. I'll chime in again in a week after I get my money right (summer classes)

Damn tranny mount is fawked! Bucks when shifting into second haha.

The only difficult thing about the rear mount is getting it out of the car.  With the oem exhaust manifold, there isn't enough room to do this so you need to drop the subframe.  With the headers out (and possible aftermarket headers) it is possible to remove it without dropping the subframe making it easy to do.  You just need to make sure you have two 1' extensions, a 17mm socket, and a flexible joint to put between the socket and the extensions.

I found it easier to do the rear mount than the front mount personally.

edit: changed 1" extension to 1' extensions.  big difference there.

It's good that we have somebody with first hand experience! When I install the new kit it will be my first time replacing a rear mount on an Accord.  The only time I had anything to do with the rear mount was when I installed my TSX tranny and all I did was unbolt it from the bracket and drop the subframe.

Considering how easy it is to remove the OEM exhaust manifold or an aftermarket header, I'd say that it shouldn't be terribly hard to accomplish after reading Sworkhard's comment.

How similar are the tsx mounts to the accord engine mounts?  If they are the same dimensions wise, you could try getting some tsx owners on board too kinda like the way they R&D'd TL and accord v6 mounts at the same time.

Also, don't expect hese mounts to last forever.  The eurathane will eventually deform requiring replacement of the bushings if you want them to perform the same as when they were new. (although this will probably be quite cheap compared to buying a new honda engine mount).

oh, and btw, why haven't you posted a link to this on gen7? I couldn't find any reference to this there.

I haven't posted this on G7A yet because I know all the performance people are mostly here.  I know there may be some people over at G7A that want these, so i'll post it up there too.

I'll want to get these if I can gather up the money for it

Great news guys!

I just spoke with Tim from Innovative and this project will commence as soon as I get a set of motor mounts out to them.  I will be purchasing and sending them out very soon.  Tim has also taken down the name of our forum and he may register here to promote our group buy.  NO MIDDLE MEN!  If we host a group buy for these guys we can attract tons of users to the site.  It's a win win win situation.  Yes I said it three times.

I am very exite.

hell yea skip! nice work.

any updates on this?

Sorry for the lack of updates guys.  The offer still stands with innovative.  They will produce mount sets for us, but they need a set of mounts to R&D.  They do not have to be BNIB but I wanted to get a new set for their purposes.  I get them at discount from work, but that's still a $200 purchase for me, and I don't have the extra money right now because I'm trying to eliminate my credit card debt.  If anybody wants to take up the torch before I get the chance to get a set of mounts, you're more than welcome to.  I understand you guys want these hotcakes too and I'm not going to hold you guys up if somebody else wants to get a set of mounts for Innovative to R&D.  After they get the mounts, they'll send them back to you so you may resell them.  Any interested parties can contact innovative at (714)-524-5246, and request that they be on the lookout for an incoming shipment if you wish to send them a set of mounts.  They'll need the front, rear, and side mounts.  I wanted to purchase a new set for them so that they'd have equal resell value when I got them back and I could sell them as a new set.  I'd like to get this process started but I can't throw away $200 at the moment.

hey Skippy, as I said over on Gen7. My offer still stands for either the front or the back ones but I think they are the back. I forgot which ones I got when I did my Manual to Auto swap. I also have a set of used tranny mounts. Let me know.

update? i know a couple guys that did research on the difference between the v6 and i4 mounts. they said its relevantly the same just the front or rear mounts need a slight adjustment. anyways they wanna start a groupbuy. i told them about you guys having one so we might hop on with you guys.

We still need to send a set of mounts to Innovative.  I need to replace my side mount, and then I'll have a set of mounts to send to them.

ok. ill let them know

Any update on this?

^ read on g7a that ricardo is going to get them on the 7/29. so im assuming they are in production!?

Interesting.  Who is ricardo?

http://www.gen7accord.net/forum/topics/4cylinder-innovative-mounts-4

they arent listed on innovative's site yet

That thread really didn't have any useful information at all.  It was just someone saying they were picking up a set.  I will remain skeptical until I get word from Innovative or that person actually posts something useful.

FYI

HondR CL9 Front & Rear Mounts (http://www.heeltoeauto.com/Hond-R-Motor-Mount-03-08-Acura-TSX-Honda-Accord-CL7-CL9-pr-65418.html)

i will definitely be getting a set of these soon.

I'm on the fence about getting those.  I replaced my front and rear mounts in December, so I don't think I need them any time soon.  I saw them the other day and figured other people would be interested. 

if that list still matters i wud def hop on it for some new aftermarket mounts

Probably not going to happen since you just bumped a two year dead thread.

FYI, these mounts are being made and sold.  They're not listed on the Innovative site, but they are available through Heel Toe Auto.  I received my set last week.  They come in 4 different urethane durometers, 60A, 75A, 85A and 95A.  They include all 3 engine mounts.

I had the Vibra Technics HondR mounts before, but exchanged them for the Innovative mounts.  The HondR mounts only come with 2 stiffnesses, street and race.  There's no actual durometer with them, so who knows what street and race actually means.  Another thing about the HondR mounts is that they only have the front and rear engine mounts, but no side mount.

Good to know. I never looked into it as my ride is stock.

tim, what stiffness did you go with? 

I got the 85A. I talked to Marcus about it when I ordered mine and he said there was little difference between the 60A and 75A. When I spoke to Paul, he mentioned that the 60A are garbage and the bushings wear out very fast.

i may have to add these to the future mods list.

It definitely can't hurt.  You'll probably want to get 75A or 85A.  I don't know how bad the 95A's are, but when I rebuild mine, I may try that if the 85A isn't too bad.

Can u explain wut those numbers mean? (75a,85a,etc) and to order these where wud I find em on heel toe? I tried looking the other day

The numbers are the durometer (stiffness) of the rubber/urethane.  The higher the number, the stiffer the rubber/urethane.  The mounts are actually listed under the TSX and not the Accord for some reason.  I guess Marcus from Heel Toe didn't want to say they will work with the Accord until someone has tested them.  I guess that would be me.

Lol cool, have u installed yours yet? And if so how do you like em

They are sitting on my work bench.  My car will be back on the road at the end of November.  I'll let you know how I like them then.

Cool I'm seriously considering ordering them ASAP cuz I just ordered a header n I'm concerned I'm gunna wreck it from excessive engine movement

:/ you guys are talking about these right?

http://www.heeltoeauto.com/innovative-mounts-04-08-acura-tsx-cl9.html (http://www.heeltoeauto.com/innovative-mounts-04-08-acura-tsx-cl9.html)

i need all mounts, even for the tranny.... all of mine have gone to shit.
Tim, which ones would you recommend for me? 75 or 85, I plan on coupling these with the ETD....

If you get those mounts, you won't need the etd.

ok, what about tranny mounts? is there anything of worth? or just go OEM?

Were it me, OEM. I don't have a built engine and rather enjoy the comfort of a non rattling interior. Had I a completely built, high HP engine, I'd go with full poly mounts.

There aren't any real options for tranny mounts other than OEM.  The ETD is a waste of money, especially if you're getting Ingalls.  It's a pile of shit if you ask me.  The only thing that I know of for a tranny mount upgrade, is the TL or TL-S tranny mount.  Paul may know more about that than me since I never did it.

As far as the Innovative mounts go, 85A is probably a bit too stiff.  I have them in my car, and at idle my car shakes like a motherfucker.  I'm considering something different down the road so I can retain some comfort.

Bumping this.

I have to replace my engine mounts, mainly the front and side.  The rear is still in good condition.  I am debating between OEM replacements or these TSX Innovative mounts with 75A durometer, since Tim mentioned earlier in this thread that the 60A is soft and garbage (via Paul).  Two questions.

(1) Does anyone know the approximate equivalent "durometer value" of the stock OEM, non-poly mounts?
(2) The price for a set of OEM mounts is cheaper than the full Innovative kit, obviously.  Again, I would only need the front and side, but I am considering replacing all mounts at the same time (for ease in maintenance records).  This thread mentions that the rear mount is a PITA to access and install, so that is another factor/deterent.  Since my car is stock engine-wise, would you recommend OEM replacement or "upgrade" to the Innovative mounts?  And "why?", please.

Thanks in advance.

I've done a little bit of reading up. The old style mounts had problems because of the design. It wasn't the bushings. 75a would really be too stiff for a DD. You should get the 60a instead. If they get fucked up, you can replace them.

Thanks Tim.  So the TSX engine mounts install as direct replacements to the OEM ones?

Yes indeed. Its essentially the same chassis and drivetrain.

Had an interesting conversation today with a plastics specialist. I asked questions about urethane hardness (60A, 75A , etc.) and the failure of some 60A bushings. Found out that urethane looses its properties over 175°F. So considering the engine temps can be over that, urethane might not be the best material for engine mounts, rubber bushings are more durable for that application. About if 75A is more durable than 60A, under 175°F they are as durable, but considering the engine mounts application, the harder the urethane, the longer it will take to degrade and be over the point of acceptable wear, but they will fail eventually. Other thing, the softer the urethane, the more friction is has internally so it creates heat, which causes more wear.

So I need to replace my motor mounts soon. Do I have any other options besides OEM at this point (For an i4)? I can't find anything on http://www.innovativemounts.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=12 (http://www.innovativemounts.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=12)

It's not easy to find, but they do have them on their site under the "steel mounts" section over in the left column of the page.

http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=10751 (http://www.innovativemounts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=10751)

I have these mounts in my car right now.  Hopefully they fixed the fitment issues because I had to massage mine to get them to fit properly.  Specifically the passenger side mount.  I wouldn't recommend getting anything stiffer than the 60A mounts.  I originally had the 85A and they were so stiff it shook the interior so bad I couldn't even have a conversation with the person riding shotgun.  I have the 75A now and they are a LOT better, but not necessary for anyone that has a stock engine or bolt ons.  I got mine from Heel Toe, if you don't want to order them directly from Innovative.  They're actually quite a bit cheaper from Heel Toe.

http://www.heeltoeauto.com/innovative-mounts-2004-08-acura-tsx-accord-euror-cl7-cl9-cl7-cl9-10751.html (http://www.heeltoeauto.com/innovative-mounts-2004-08-acura-tsx-accord-euror-cl7-cl9-cl7-cl9-10751.html)