EliteCM.net

The past two oil changes I've noticed that my car is burning a good bit of oil.  Ever since I've owned my car it has burned oil.  I bought with 80,000 miles and I would have to add about 1/4 of a quart of oil in it between changes. Now it has 120,000 miles and now I have to add a whole quart between changes.  I dont drive my car hard at all maybe once every other day I might hit redline getting onto the freeway but thats about the extent of it.  I usually drive like a grandma and keep the rpms as low as possible at cruising speeds.  Since i've owned it I've changed the oil every 3,000 miles with Mobil 1 5w-20 oil and either a Mobil filter or a Bosch Filter.  And the only maintenance I've done to engine besides oil changes is I put a K&N air filter in it and I changed the serpintine belt.  Is there something engine maintenance I should have done around 100,000 miles that could a cause of this or is there a recommendation on what i should do.  I had thought about going to a 30 weight but I dont know if it would be to thick or not.  I also check for leaks everytime I change the oil and I have not found any leaks what so ever.  PLus I dont know if this has anything to do with it or this may be a factor for something but I have noticed my gas mileage has dropped also.  i used to be able to get close to 400 mile on a tank and now I get about 340 miles.

The plugs should've been changed by now...

oh yeah i forgot i did that.  Changed them at 100,000 with the NGK Irdiums.  I knew I forgot to mention something.  The previous owner said they were changed but I didnt believe them so I changed them anyway. But I dont think the previous owner took very good care of the car.  And they werent exactly the best driver either, it had been wrecked over 4 times and thats just what the carfax said

I had (rather, still have) issues with oil burn-off.  When I got the car with about 77k miles I switched over to synthetic against the recommendation of a few people.  Between my 5k mile oil changed, I probably had to add about 2.5 quarts to keep the proper level.  I did three synthetic oil changes to see if maybe the car would get used to the synthetic but every time it drank oil like a sieve.  

After I changed back to conventional, I noticed that I had to add roughly half of what I had to add when I was using synthetic.  I've also thought about switching to a thicker oil like 10W-30 to see if that helps further.  I wanted to use a high-mileage oil but I find it impossible to find it in 5W-20 so maybe I will be forced to go to 10W-30.

this thread makes me think about how lucky i've gotten with my high mileage accord.

155k and it doesn't burn oil at all :)

Go to a conventional 10W-30 like castrol, I reccomend that even with my engine builds, the 5-20 is too damn thin when the car gets to full op temp and synthetic is even worse at thinning at temp, but it sounds like you rings are ging causing the oil loss, when you pulled the plugs what did they look like, can you pull the plugs now and take picks of them being sure to mark what cylinder they came from.

yeah I can do it tommorrow, i cant remember what they looked like when i changed them.  So synthetic actually burns more and thins under higher temps.  I always thought it was much better to run and was supposed to last longer between changes which is why I used it.

Yes, the oil holds it's lubrication properties longer, but it does thin out more than convetional with temp, I tested this using mobil 1 and castrol 5-20 and 10-30, the same car, same pressure gauge, the mobil 1 was only giving a 6-9 psi at idle reading at full temp, a bit low, the 5-20 was only 8-12psi and the 10-30 was 12-18psi, right where I like to see idle oil pressure.

alright I think im gonna switch to just 5w20 conventional and see how that goes then I might try the 10w30 im just afraid to use a oil that thick.  I definetly know I wont be able to use that in the winter my car doesnt want to start as it is with 5w20 when it cold out.

I'm actually going to be switching to 5W30 for the summer, and possibly 10W30 because of Rick's advice.  I also suffer from the loss of oil in my +150k motor.  I am fully aware that synthetic oil burns off faster than dino oil, in addition to the fact that 5W20 is very thin.

I might also switch to a thicker oil. The only thing lost should maybe be a little bit of gas mileage right?

^Correct, but not even enough to mesure...... Another persone who has a J35 build now gets 37-38MPG on his drives from VA to NJ, he used to only get 32-33MPG with his J30A5 and now runs castrol 10W-30, there was no decernable loss of MPG.

Cylinder #1
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn429/slammedk24/DSC_0050-1.jpg)
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn429/slammedk24/DSC_0051.jpg)

Cylinder #2
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn429/slammedk24/DSC_0052.jpg)
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn429/slammedk24/DSC_0053-2.jpg)

Cylinder #3
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn429/slammedk24/DSC_0054-1.jpg)
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn429/slammedk24/DSC_0055.jpg)

Cylinder #4
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn429/slammedk24/DSC_0056-2.jpg)
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn429/slammedk24/DSC_0057-1.jpg)

All of the electrodes were still very pointed and looked fine.

that's the new set?

Yeah they 26000 mile on them

This is what mine looked like when I pulled them out at around 84,991 miles on them.  

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3004/2422250804_39fd209020_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2231/2421437487_f865cca43e_o.jpg)

You guys see those grey little blobs, that is burnt oil deposites, you both have oil gettting past the rings into the combustion chamber.

Slammed, cylinder 1 looks especially crappy....

So what do you recommend doing to help this problem from getting worse.  Besides changing the type and weight of oil I run but is there anyhting else I should do

Nothing that can be done, clean them off, change oil weight and look again after a while, if is persists then it would take new pistons and rings to fix it, but if that is 26K miles it isn't too bad, but the engine is getting tired.....

Ok how should I clean the plugs with a fine wire brush or is that too harsh.  And do you recommend that I change #1

Use eaither a stainless or brass brush and then check the gap before reinstalling.

Most honda dealerships have a few old school technicians with spark plug cleaners...they use a media blasting bag that takes all the gunk off.

Just so you guys know, synthetic does burn faster and more readily than conventional oil, and K series are indeed oil eaters.  I noticed it in my car along with a bunch of other people.  It may be due to the fact that our VTEC operates constantly...that's all I can think of to accelerate oil deterioration and consumption.

Paul...6-9 PSI at idle???? wow! K series idle oil pressure is in the mid 40's at idle and near 100 PSI under load!

I've noticed my car has suddenly (in the last 7000 or so miles) started burning oil.  so about 1000 miles ago i replaced the pcv valve and did a seafoam treatment.  Now i'm monitoring the situation (still too soon to tell).  The increase in oil consumption seems to coinside with installing my injen short ram intake, so if oil consumption is still high, i'll try putting my oem intake back on and see if that helps.  I was burning about 1/2 quart every 5000 miles, but my last change i burned over 2 quarts in the same amount of time    I have a bit less than 130000 miles on my car.  When i did my last change, the oil seemed dirtier and grittier than I remember from previous changes, dispite a 4500 mile oci. vs my usually 6000 mile oci

Skippy- those reading are at full operationg temprature, when cold yeah I get 50-70PSI at idle, hell the factory manual only calls for min 10PSI at idle.

Sworkhand- One thing with seafoam, where do you think all that carbon goes when you use the stuff??????

Paul, sorry to keep this going, but I'm still amazed! K series oil pressure is in the mid 30's to 40's at idle at operating temp.  I can't believe J series have such low oil pressure at idle! So interesting!

NVA-AV6: I checked the oil before I did the seafoam.  I did do a lot more cold starts and very short trips on this oil change than usual though so that'll have a lot to do with oil consumption as well.  I also did a auto-rx treatment 3 oil changes ago so that might have something to do with the grittier oil as well.  (The stuff works really well, but very slowly).  I'll be following it as i'll be doing almost all highway driving this summer so it should go back to the regular 1/2 quart per 5000

I have noticed that my car started guzzling oil recently.  In a little under 4,000 miles, I have had to add 4 quarts of oil.  In the past, I would have to add about 1.5 to 2 quarts between oil changes (5k miles for me).  

From Tim's and Skippy's advice I took off the valve cover and took some pictures of the cams.  The two exhaust cams that were facing me look very rough with some slight indentations.  The intake cams look a lot better but I'm no expert.

Any of you engine gurus, please share your thoughts about what can be done, if anything.  I'm not really in the position to do an engine swap, I'd like to save what's left of this motor.  What are my options?  Thank you in advance!  

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/4692431530_0328066c7f_b.jpg)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1293/4691799845_5f3a388d03_b.jpg)


Cylinder 1 exhaust cam
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4008/4691799899_93a6afd963_b.jpg)


Cylinder 3 exhaust cam
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4691799943_90d3ced2d6_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4692431362_f71f5a6b09_b.jpg)


Cylinder 1 intake cams
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4692431400_5104fe89ef_b.jpg)


Spark plugs
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4692431120_040ba6a519_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4691799693_ddd541d156_b.jpg)

Inside of my valve cover
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4056/4692431460_f555816e99_b.jpg)

What oil do you use? How many miles do you have?

If you're not losing the oil, then my first guess would be an oil pressure issue.

Mileage is 131,xxx. 10w-30 Valvoline Max Life

Exhaust cam is toast and the oil is going somewhere, I would have to imagine it is being burnt, now the question is are the valve steam seals gone or are the rings, get a compression test.

From the conversation I had with Milan last night, he seems to be losing oil and having oil pressure issues.  It doesn't seem to be as bad as mine was, but I'm pretty sure it will be soon.


When I had this problem with my old motor, I did a compression test and everything checked out and was within spec.  What would tell you it was the valve stem seals or the rings?

Well first off if compression is good then I would be looking at valve stem seals, if there were compression issues I would then dump a drinking straw full of oil in the cylinder and recheck the compression, if it raises then it is rings where the oil woul create a semi seal to allow more compression, the it stays low then we are looking at a valve issue. Now to confirm the valve stem seal pull of the intake and exhaust manis and look at the valves for sighns of oil leaking down them, espacially the intake valves. The exhaust cam looks like it was oil starved which would lead to the lobe failure shown in the pics so I woild also look at the oil pressure real close, Milan is already using a 10-30 which is a good thing, but what you want to see is at full engine operating tempeature a reading of at least 12PSI of oil pressure, at least on low milage V6 engines with 5W20 oil I have seen oil pressures all the way down to 5PSI.

what is considerd a good compression test? is it as long as all 4 cylinders have similar readings then its good? or do we have to calculate compresion of our piston x atm and make sure our compression is atually at that compression?

also, what is considered an unreasonable amount of oil lost? i think im losing like 1-2 quarts every 3 months, should i be worried? running on 5w30

I have the specs somewhere for compression on a K24.  I'll try and post them later tonight if I have a chance.

Look guys I am just some backyard mechanic who knows absolutly nothing about engines, but if it were me I would be running 10W30 in mine, which I am.

You have a J30.  What would you run in my K24A2?  10W30 also?

I use 10W30 in my K24... I was told it is meant for high mileage, im only at 94K right now... 5W30 as recommended on the oem oil cap I was told is basically for low mileage.  

Yes, 10W30

Billy, your oil cap should say 5W20, not 5W30.  Paul, I'll give that a try with my next oil change.  I've been using 5W30 dino oil since I've gotten this motor.  When we put it in, it still had the break in oil.

Even with higher milage 10w-30 is much thicker then the 5w-20 the K24 is supposed to be using. I use 5w-20 still in the summer and 0w-20 in the winter for better flow when its cold. The higer the number the thicker viscosity. If you needed to go thicker then maybe 5w-30. Try to keep the first number lower then a 10. Thats why almost all the newer cars stopped using 10w30 and 10w40 weight oils.

Your right it does,  

i use the 10w30 on my k24a2

I know this probably isn't the right section, but I wanted more than one reply haha. I know the k2x motors use a lot of oil but does this seem common? About 2800 miles into my oil change, the oil light will flash and the car is a dog and I assume there isn't much oil pressure, but as soon as i put more oil in it, it is fine :D Any ideas? Im afraid im gonna blow this bitch to peices, but I continue raping it and have yet to hurt the motor, 1 tranny, 4 motor mounts, 2 tranny mounts, 4 cd changers, and a crank shaft pulley, all have been replaced due to wheel hop ??? :D

First of all I moved this to the right section which should have been easy enough to figure out! If your driving your car that hard on a regualr basis and expecting it to last your crazy, and if your losing that much oil there is a serious problem with your engine. No leaks? That't an awful lot of oil to burn. Also why on earth would you wait until the oil light flashes. I would be checking my oil daily if it was disappearing like it is in your car. I'd get it checked out right away before your looking to buy a motor.

If it blows up I will crash it into a tree, there are simple way's around this. Lol. I change my oil every 3000 miles and there are no leaks or anything. I ripped all the interior out and took the exhaust off and ran a 15.3@90 Bone stock, 4cyl 5speed 4dr.. That was when I broke the crank shaft pulley and it leaked all the oil out. But they warrantied it and its been fine ever since, just uses a lil bit of oil.. Guess I will install a oil pressure guage and see whats going on.

2.5 - 3 QT'S is not a little! That's probably 65 - 75% of total oil capacity. There are three things that could be going on here

1. Your Bullshitting us all
2. You have an oil leak
3. Your burning alot of oil

Does your car smoke at all? The reason for the loss in performance is probably the ECU countering the loss of pressure. I'm pretty sure it would stop VTEC engagement amongst other things.
Driving you car into a tree is insurance fraud, and you just posted about it on a public forum.

Lol, im not bull shitting, vtec doesnt even work sometimes ill floor it and it wont go anywhere and then it manages to pull itself thru and vtec will engage at like 5200 rather than 3300 thats when I put more oil in er'.. shes a trusty ol girl never really let me down. When the trans blew I bought a used one with 7000 miles for 350 dollars shipped and replaced the clutch and fly wheel with exedy stage 1. it was easy to swap i thought it would be a PITA. but put it on a lift and dropped the craddle and it came right out. the final drive gear was missing if that tells you anything.. lol. IM very hard on my car, and i really dont care if it does blow up, I was actually thinking about spraying it. seeing if I could break 13s bone stock with spray only. lifetime replacement axels FTW.

Here is a picture of my car.

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs548.snc3/30027_1146802072610_1304280290_30614856_597588_n.jpg)

Wow. You really don't belong on this forum at all. We actually give a shit about our cars. Good luck with your problem and your attitude.

 :D Im just fuckin with you guys. But it does use that much oil.

I agree totally. We drive our cars hard at times but you're at the extreme man. Sounds like you need a new engine.

I'm thinking he is kidding, just trying to lighten the mood but get his question answered at the same time. Clean the sand out of your vags, Z no pun intended.

You said you took your exhaust off to race it correct? Was it all caked up with black shit? I'd imigine if your buring that much its doing work on the cat, and sensors. Maybe do a compression test it would probably give you alot of answers.

How many miles do you have on your car?

Dude, you have no idea.

You guys are so touchy! I bought my car brand new in 2007, it now has 53,000 miles on it. And no, the muffler and cat and resonator are clean. My oil is vanishing ???

Are you sure you aren't exaggerating because that is almost 70% of your oil.

My car was perfect all around till my ex gf's ex bf decided it would be a good idea to key my car then it was broken into and I just gave up on it, but im turning it around slowly but surely, going with GC coil overs and havent decided on struts yet, my factory struts have taken a lot of abuse and are about shot, being lowered on tein s techs for 3 years isnt exactly easy on them. I have always had honda change my oil up untill my warranty was voided because a guy at honda saw me race my car at the track and he told on me :flip:

And yeah, I just put 3 quarts of oil in it.  :laugh:

Do you park in a consistent spot like in a garage?

Yeah, I park in the exact same spot every day at work, and in my garage at home, never a drop of anything, besides when the crank shaft pulley broke, all the oil was on the ground in my garage..

Sorry I came on here and got ya'll panties in a wad I was just being ignorant haha. I beat on my car very hard.. you guys would be dissapointed in me. But thats just how i have always been with every car i drive, i beat on it and when it breaks i upgrade it. My car went down hill fast, and i am a professional detailer and am very anal with vehicles and mine is a pile of junk IMO, but It will all be fixed soon.

It's fine. If there is a legitimate problem, which it sounds like there is, I think everyone here would like to do all they can to help you out. Sometimes it is hard to decipher what is bullshit and what isn't. If you are straightforward and honest there are some very knowledgable people here that can lend a hand. So, if it were me and I wanted an answer, I would cut the crap and give the facts in a coherent post.

 :stupid:
Once we get used to you though, its cool to fuck off. No panties in a wad here. You're new and we saw you as another fuck off and got on the defensive quick. We've had our share of assclowns and have dealt with them accordingly. Anyway, I don't know why I'm thinking this but have you visually inspected your cams, plugs, and seals?

I haven't checked anything, I just always add oil to it and everything seem's fine. I was always running 87 octane in it and im pretty sure it pings, so i changed to 94 octane and it kind of went away, the sound acctually sounds like walnuts rattleing in the intake lol. I havent changed the air filter once since i bought the car have cleaned it a few times tho, I am going to build a cold air intake for it, so i am just waiting for my fabricator to fab one up for me. I will post pix when I get it done. Gonna change the oil tomorrow and see whats up, no leaks or nothing tho which is odd.

I'd check the compression first.  Like Z said, pop off your valve cover and take a look at your cams.  I ran into a similar problem with my car and this is what my cams looked like at around 150k. 

(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g274/timot_one/Cam%20Wear/camwear.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g274/timot_one/Cam%20Wear/IMG00005-20091003-1852.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g274/timot_one/Cam%20Wear/IMG00007-20091003-1857.jpg)

I haven't torn that motor apart yet, but I plan on it when I have some spare time.  When I checked the compression, it was within spec.  From the conversations I've had with a few engine builders, they're guessing that it's either the rings or the valve guides.  I know that oil was literally spitting out my exhaust.  If you held your hand an inch away from my tail pipe for a few minutes while my car idled, your hand would have drops of oil all over it.

I know you don't really give a shit about your car, but you may want to take it easy until you figure out your problem or just drive it into the ground.

Is it just me or does this look photochopped?

Looks pretty similar to mine. I have an admirer or a stalker. Take your pick.

theres nothing wrong with having an admirer/stalker...

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c14/crazycreashunz/ECAP%202010/HarrimanStatePark019.jpg)

thats why Billys car is so similar to mine and im cool with it  :P


I agree with the other guys on here, i would take it easy on the car until you get the oil problem sorted out. Thats a TON of oil to have magically disappearing...

Stalkers are creepy.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g274/timot_one/August%20MA%20Meet/IMG_2227.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g274/timot_one/August%20MA%20Meet/IMG_2231.jpg)

How much oil do you lose on a weekly basis?  If you're running that low before you fill it back up, you're starving your engine of oil when you drive, and you're definitely going to grenade your motor quickly.

Damn Tim! Busting out with the old ass pics? You know Levi don't have those wheels anymore and your car is far from that now.

Anyway, back OT. Like Steve, Tim, and others have said, take it easy with your ride before you end up replacing your engine for treating it like dog shit.

Only difference is mine looks good and yours doesnt ::oh snap::

I changed my oil yesterday everything went fine, oil didnt look burnt up or anything, who knows tho. I will now check my oil every time I fill up with gas, and carry a qt of Mobil 1 with me.

Oil isn't going to look burnt. Burnt oil is burnt in the cylinders, and expelled thorough your exhaust system

 :stupid:

I can't get enough of that smiley.  :laugh:

It describes you to a T

That doesn't make any sense!

IM saying, it lookd like it was all still there lol

Guess I misunderstood

Damn, I haven't posted in a while due to other motor related projects. But my timing chain jumped (which I replaced) and I seem to be burning lots of oil(quart/tank). I suspect it is my valve stem seals but I am not sure, the pcv has been replaced 2 questions, how do I check them without dismantling? And what special tools are needed to swap them out?(Never replaced them before) not sure if anything else would cause oil to burn. Posting quickly before work and I'll check back later.

Edit: KE4

get one of these:

http://www.euroexportinc.com/store/honda-acura-k20-k24-valve-spring-compressor.html (http://www.euroexportinc.com/store/honda-acura-k20-k24-valve-spring-compressor.html)

perfect thats exactly what i was looking for, thanks!