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So I sent my used oil out to Blackstone Laboratories with a check for $32.50 about 2 weeks ago and got the results back last week.  I have a K24 auto that had 56,072 miles (at time of testing).  The oil tested had 6,616 miles on it and was Mobil 1 5w20 full sythetic.  All of the metal wear elements they tested for were within normal ranges, and the other tests that measured things like insolubles and remaining additives were fine.  Here's the write-up that the lab provided:

"Universal averages show typical wear metals for this type engine after about 6,500 miles run on the oil.  Your oil was in use 6,616 miles, and we found all wear at around average levels and in the correct balance to show normal mechanical parts inside the engine.  Air and oil filtration (see silicon and insolubles) appear normal.  The was 5W/20 engine oil with no fuel, moisture or anti-freeze in it.  The TBN was 2.8, showing lots of active additive left.  1.0 is too low.  The oil could have stayed in use longer.  Try going ~8,500 miles for the next sample and check back to see the results."

Guess this is all good to know.  My mechanic actually rode me a bit that I went too long on my oil change and should change the oil (even synthetic) at about 5,000 mile intervals.  Needless to say, when he saw the results of this test, he was a little shocked.  But hell, the Honda manual says to change the oil every 10,000 miles or 12 months, so long intervals on Honda engines seem to make sense.

wow - i didn't expect that.  what Mobils recommended change frequency with m1 full synthetic?

Now you have nothing to worry about on how long you can go on M1 5w20 right Dave?

These results do not surprise me one bit.  I see oil analysis reports like yours all the time.  Run your oil to 8,500 as the lab suggests and re-test.

Honda's 10,000 recommended interval is for non-synthetic oil (the cheap stuff) under "normal driving conditions"  Honda's 5,000 recommended interval is for non-synthetic oil under "severe conditions".

Honda classifies "severe" as:

1. Driving less than 5 miles per trip or, in freezing temps driving less than 10 miles per trip.
2. Driving in extremely hot conditions [over 90F].
3. Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving.

Most full synthetics (mobil-1, penzoil platinum, valvoline synpower, etc) have a protective, and useful life of ~10,000 miles in our K-series engines.  This is just a guideline...to find out for sure test your oil.

Yeh I agree Greg.  The Honda intervals are all based on conventional grade oil, so full synthetic can be run for quite a long-ass time.  Honestly, it'll probably outlast your oil filter.

I still change mine every ~3,000 miles, otherwise Skip would have a conniption haha

just messin bud

Waste of $, and bad for the environment.  

Moved.  Please read:

General Discussion
A place to talk about anything automotive or forum related that doesn't fit in any other category. Specific performance or technical threads are not allowed and will be moved or deleted.

ive been thinking of switching to synthetic lately and this thread may have made the decision for me

I didn't really think this was a performance or technical topic.  Oh well.

This is what a few engineers in the industry told me when I asked them, "Engine oil can last up to 50K+ miles, but then no one would ever buy engine oil nor check their engine oil levels, so manufacturers pounded those magical 3K 5K 10K numbers into the consumers head."

Just recently sent out used oil again to Blackstone Labs for analysis.  This time, it was run for about 8,400 miles.  Results should be in soon.

I got the results of my 2nd used oil analysis sent to me on Friday by Blackstone Labs, and things are looking good once again.  This time around, my oil change interval was a little bit longer per their recommendation at 8,253 miles (64,325 total miles on the K24), and I used the same oil & filter combo as last time (Mobil 1 5w20 full sunthetic oil and a Mobil 1 oil filter) with similar mostly highway driving patterns.  Similar to last time, most of the wear metals were all within normal ranges, and the TBN test that they do to measure insolubles and the remaining cleaning agents and additives actually had better results than last time. Here's the lab's comments:

"Now that's what we call consistency--at least so far.  The oil was run about 1,500 miles longer than last time and yet wear metals were exactly the same.  That's a great sign that the engine is doing well.  Insolubles were unchanged at 0.3%, so the oil filter was getting the job done.  Silicon actually dropped a little, so we don't see any problems with air filtration.  No fuel or moisture was present in the sample, along with no abrasive contaminants.  The TBN was 3.4, better than last time.  Try an even 10,000 miles next time.  The engine shouldn't mind a bit."

So, this is good news.  I'm just surprised that the oil filter can last this long, but the oil itself doesn't surprise me.  Looks like I may be following Honda's recommended oil change intervals for normal driving going forward, which are at 10,000 miles.

awesome.  although i will probably continue to do it at 5000 just because i only drive 10k a year if that.

Dave can you give me a little information on how to get this done as well as the cost. I would like to do a couple of these to see if I can change my oil a little less that price of oil is going no where but, up so I'd like to save some cash and do my part for the enviroment at the same time.

I use Blackstone Labs.   http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Easiest is to request a sample kit. Its easy to do....take a sample, and send it in.

^ Mike, I use Blackstone Labs as well.  All you do is order a free kit, then pour some oil into a small bottle that they give you when you do your oil change/drain.  When you ship the sample to them, you pay $22.50 for a basic test, or for an extra $10, you can also get the TBN test done (it tests how much cleaning agents are still left in the oil... I think).  In the long run, my results will save me money and help the environment, like you said.

I just ordered a kit.  Hopefully I'll remember to do this eventually.

I'm confused about the oil change interval of 10,000 miles.  Mine tells me the percentage of oil life remaining, and when it gets below 10% it puts up the service reminder.  The time between oil changes for me is usually 5500-6500 miles.

My 2003 model doesn't have that extensive maintenance reminder system, just the maintenance reset button on the dash.  The analysis tells me that based on my driving habits and oil used, I can go longer between oil changes than initially expected.  Those automatic maintenance reminder systems never seem to be very accurate anyway.

The sample I sent in had 5,500 miles on the oil (Pennzoil platinum).  Report came back very good, and they suggested extending my oil change interval to 7,500k.

^ The oil companies must hate these testing labs lol.

i wonder if a genuine honda filter or mobil 1 filter would make a difference. since i use the same m1 syn

Personally I use the Honda filters.  I buy them in bulk here: http://www.handa-accessories.com/accmaint03.html (http://www.handa-accessories.com/accmaint03.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

$29 for a 6 pack.

i use them as well, just wondering if the m1 might be a better option

I just use the Mobil 1 filter because when you can find sales, the oil and filter usually need to be bought together.

Got the results of my third oil test in my e-mail today.  The oil tested (Mobil 1 5w-20 full synthetic) was used for 9,672 miles with a Mobil 1 oil filter.  Here was the writeup:

"DAVID: It's yet another good report for the 2.4L in your Accord. Wear metals stayed very flat and low
compared to universal averages. You're really starting to develop some nice wear trends for this engine, so
any problems that do show up should stick out like a sore thumb. The oil itself was in good shape physically
with no coolant or fuel found. Low insolubles and silicon show good oil and air filtration. The TBN was nice
and strong at 2.6 showing plenty of active additive left. This engine can handle a longer oil run, so try
11,500 miles on the next oil and check back."

Not too shabby once again.  So, save money and save the environment and change your oil less often fellas (under normal driving conditions anyway).

I like those results, Dave. Have you ever gotten a used oil analysis with dino oil? I used to have Mobil 1 5W30, but it burnt a lot, so I was going to go back to dino oil. On the synthetic, I was going 6,500 miles before changing, which according to your results, is very low!

^ I've never tested dino oil since the only time this car had non-synthetic oil in it was when it was pretty new.  I switched to full synthetic fairly early into my ownership of it, so I can't say how well it'd hold up.

So, now that I'm not driving the Accord daily anymore, I'm not putting a ton of miles on it.  As I do my oil analysis, of which the last one called for a longer change inter val, I'm nowhere near hitting the mark yet, but it's been about a year and a half since my lasy change.  The question I'm asking is, does oil break down just as quick time-wise as it does mileage-wise.  Debating if I should change it soon, or if it'll be fine until 11.5k of use.

Wow, I'd be interested to see what the lab says after running the oil for over a year.  How many miles on this one?

A year and a half??  If it was me I'd change it for sure. 

if you going to not drive it much over the winter leave it, and change it at the start of the season. Then get another analysis and you should have your answer

Agreed. I've never checked out what oil looks like sitting on the shelf for a little over a year but considering yours is used oil, I'm sure its broken down just as much, if not more than if you drove the full mileage Blackstone recommended.

All good points.


Probably only about 7.5k-8k over the last 17 months.  I do drive the car, but probably once every 2 weeks on average, sometimes far if needed.  So, not many miles since Blackstone said I could stretch this interval to 11,500 miles.  But again, but sure if the time frame causes oil to break down at the same speed as running it for lots of miles.

I would ask whoever you are in contact with at Blackstone, I'm sure they will have a better answer then us metalheads

But we all be sooo smmaatttt.

Don't be going New England in here Dave. This forum is English speaking.

Lo siento amigo.

Fucker.

So I need folks to weigh in.  I'll be doing an oil change soon (finally), and knowing that the car has 81k miles and is only driven sporadically now with very little (if any) time on the road in the winter, should I be changing to a different weight oil now, or "high mileage", or just keep sticking with 5w-20.  I have an automatic with lots of bolt-ons and live in RI.  I will be buying my new jug soon, so I'm wondering what others think?

... ok then.

Go with 5-30 at a minimum. The 5-20 is too thin.

Is that the only positive argument for it?

The oil being too thin? Known fact dude. That oil weight was designed for gas mileage and hippy tree hugger shit like that. The older an engine gets, the more the internals wear out. Thin oil helps that along.

He's correct. While your used oil analysis has always come back great. I don't think it includes viscosity. Lighter oils don't provide the same level of protection. I run 10w30 year round. My mileage is about 1 mpg less but the oil pressure stays in a more comfortable range with the thicker oil.

Holy shit! Mike agreed with me?! Is the world ending?

What mike said i do the same with good quality oil and hamp oil filter ( "spouse to raise oil pressure by 5psi ") the car feels smooth year round for me I really haven't notice the lack in mpg , having piece of mind is great. I notice my oil has been cleaner every since I switch to Pennzoil ultra over synthetic castrol oil am a wait till my next oil change and get it analyze

I might try 5w-30 this time then.  Which brand / "high mileage" / extended performance is the question.

I use standard castrol 10w30 on mine. 120k and still kicking.

10w?  Hmm...

Yes sir.

Oil question for ya guys (seems like the best thread to put it in... didn't wanna start a new one). 

So I just changed GFs Souls oil (yes I realize the ginger irony lol).  It only takes 3.5 qts and I just buy what's on special at work.  This month was Castrol, last month was Valvoline, all conventional oil.  So now I have 3 qts worth of oil (1 1/2 castrol, 1 1/2 valvoline).  Would it be an extremely horrible/dumb idea to just consolidate it in one jug and use the mixture for an oil change?  Haven't done it yet, just somethin that crossed my mind.

Generally, I don't because each manufacturer has their own formulas. They may be so insignificant in the different formulas but I try to stick with the same brand per change. It may not make much of a difference but I'm a stickler for consistency when it comes to my oil.

It's a Kia its going to break at a 100,001 miles any way! I wouldnt mix them though....

Lol true.

Alright ill just keep switchin up between Valvoline and Castrol and savin the excess in seperate jugs.

even 4 changes the sale cycle at AAP should give u the extra to make a full jug of each.

Yup.  Just bein cheap since its not my car. :P

Here's the response I got from Blackstone Labs regarding my oil change question:

"Truthfully, we don't see a lot of
difference in the wear patterns from switching between different brands or
formulas of oil, especially when an engine has been looking as good as
yours has been in our previous tests. The Mobil 1 5W/20 you've been using
has been holding up very well, and it still had plenty of active additive
left on a long 9,672-mile oil run, so we doubt you'd really see any benefit
from switching to a "high mileage" or "extended performance" type of oil.
Then again, we doubt it would really hurt anything either, so if you'd like
to try it and see if there are any changes, it probably wouldn't do any
harm to experiment with it a little bit.

As for the viscosity, the same thing goes, except you don't want to go too
far out of the engine's comfort zone when it comes to the weight of the
oil. In general, a thicker oil will tend to protect the bearings more,
while a lighter viscosity will have an easier time getting to the upper-end
(pistons/cylinders, etc.), so the viscosity is something of a balancing
act. Go too thick, and the oil won't flow well enough to get to all the
parts of the engine; go too thin, and the oil won't create enough of a film
to stop the metal-on-metal contact in the bearings. If you were having
issues, you might try stepping up or down a grade, just to see if that
helps, but if the engine's been running smoothly on 5W/20 all these years,
and if that's what it's designed to use, then we wouldn't see any reason to
change. If you just went to a 5W/30 or something like that, it probably
wouldn't hurt anything, and we doubt you'd see any problems, but we doubt
you'd see any real benefits, either.

Hope that helps. Maybe once we see a new sample, especially if things do
change with a different type of oil, we'll have more specific advise we can
give you. There are a lot of variables involved in an engine, so it's very
hard to generalize... what works for one, may lead to problems for another,
so the best thing to do is just keep an eye on it, and if you make any
changes, watch carefully to see if there's a difference in the way the
engine runs. Let me know if there's anything else we can do for you. Thanks!"

The results of my latest used oil analysis finally came in.  This sample had a little over 7,500 miles on it and an oil change interval of about 2 and a quarter years, with a lot of extended periods of sitting without being driven.  The results were still good:

"Time on the oil isn't nearly as important as miles on the oil since oil doesn't really go bad over time.
Modern engines are sealed thoroughly for emissions reasons, so there's no real chance that condensation
or corrosion could enter into the mix. As you can see here, wear metals are very low after 7,581 miles. This
oil could have been left in use, but changing it out didn't hurt anything. The TBN was strong at 2.6 showing
active additive remaining. Less than 1.0 is considered low. Run 9,000 miles on the next oil, even if the car
does see some sitting."

I'm going tp push over 10k between my next oil change as my last oil analysis recommended going even longer, but I changed this sample out at a lower mileage interval since I was concerned with the age of the oil, which apparently didn't affect it much.