EliteCM.net

(Some of you on this board have already heard this noise in person and gave me some advice, buy I figured I'd make it public considering even my mechanic was stumped.)

Listen for the squeel ------------------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf1WYNnwrR8

Okay, so this persistent squeeling noise when the a/c or defrosters are engaged started to show up within the last month.  The engine has had a minor squeeling noise (even with the a/c off) for a while, but now it's getting progressively worse and seems to get louder when the steering wheel gets turned.  Once the a/c fans kick on, this noise appears, regardless of if I'm idle or driving.  At first I thought it was the belt, but it can't be.  Some recommendations have pointed to the compressor unit crapping out, which seems to be a $400 part.  What do ya'll think?  Here's some current engine specs that might help out:

2003 Accord i4, automatic, daily driven, has the Unorthodox Racing underdrive pulleys for about 10k miles and a new oem belt installed at the same time (maybe I shoulda got the smaller Gates one, but the belt tensioner indicator arrow seems within spec, right??), only about 55k miles on the car.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bad tensioner. That will be $49.99 for me to diagnose it Dave. Haha. It seems like the tensioner is binding up right when the A/C engages. When the A/C compressor engages, it puts more inertia on the serpentine belt which then cause that noise. Did you use the right size belt? Having a wrong size belt can cause tensioner clap. Usually, a longer belt will cause a squeel on maunal adjusted drive belts, but auto adjuster belts have a little more slack. If the belt is even a tad bit off within that spec, it will cause a tensioner clap (as I call it). The tensioner clap is when the belt puts force on the tensioner to just to get it out of the specified range that it needs to be in.

Try a smaller belt to see if that helps. If the problem persist, replace the tensioner and hope the problem goes away. I hope that helps you out. I heard similar noises like the one you posted, and it came down to a bad tensioner.

hey im having the same noise problem...i just installed my UR underdrive pulleys and i been noticed the same kind of weird noises it seems to be stronger when the AC compressor turns on..i think the pulleys have something to do with it

did you get a new belt when you installed the UR? It might have screwed up your tensioner since you might have gotten the smaller size pulley one. Did you get stock diameter one or  underdrive?

this are the ones i have and they some times makes that noise when the engine is been running for a while and the motor is hot..They are under drive pulleys use the OEM belt since it is compensated witht he p/s.

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/xenonhids/pulleys.jpg)

i think even oem one makes noise too. Last time my friend p/s was whining like a supercharger. Shot some Dw40 and its gone. Then 1 week later it came back. lol

I have that same noise and it started after the install of my Ralco Pulleys.

I also am having the same noise after just replacing my belt with a NEW dayco. You should get the reccomended legnth belt and while replacing it check the tensioner, to check it, first feel the pully it should spin freely and have no play or feel in any way "notchy". Next get a "beam" type tourqe wrench and check the pressure of the tensioner, I am not sure of the I4 spec".

Thien, how sure are you that it's the belt, or worse, the tensioner?  It seems like most people in this thread are reporting that after installing some kind of aftermarket pulleys, they're getting odd noises like this.  It's a shame, because back when the UR pulleys were released, a lot of people told me that the oem belt would be fine, so I grabbed a new one from Honda and called it a day.  This seems to be a false assumption now.  I can try to go out and find the properly sized Gates belt that UR recommended (for the RSX or TSX pulley kit... can't remember exactly at the moment), but I wanna be certain that it'll be a fix-all, unless you think that having the oem belt for the past year may have done permanent damage to the tensioner.

And Paul, I'm a little confused by what you explained in order to check the tensioner.  Which pulley needs to be checked, the crank?  And what do you mean by "notchy"?

The pully on the tensioner itself....

"Notchy", when rotating the pully by hand, feeling it not be completly smooth , like there is something wrong with the bearing.

^ Oh ok.  

My mechanic also asked if there were aftermarket harmonic dampeners (or balancers, forget the exact word) made for these pulleys, which I guess go on the inner part of the pulley that attaches to the engine and .  Anyone have any info on this?

^Nothing like that for us....

Replaced my tensiner this morning and life is good.....

Looks like we got one confirmed fix with the tensioner. I almost positive its the tensioners for you guys. I have dealt with similiar problems. I had to figure out the noise using a mechanics stethoscope. It seems like after time, the bearings inside either the tensioner or pulley gets weak and starts to bind up. Dave, I would get both a new correct size belt and tensioner. This should cure your problems or anyone else who has this problem.

should we get a a lil shorter belt or bigger? how do we know what belt to use? the noise on my seems to get worse day by day

Get a little shorter belt. Not to short but just a tad shorter then the OEM belt.

Unorthodox Racing recommends a specific belt for the underdrive pulleys right in the installation instructions.  Once I find them, I can post the belt's part number.  I know it's a Gates belt.

Also how much is the tensioner, and what's the part #?

There is 2 different part number I found.

31170-PNA-023 - $80.36

31170-RAA-A02 - $53.50

Don't know the difference between them, but here is the link from Hondapartsunlimited.com

http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/prdd ... ion=ENGINE (http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/prddisplay.php?inputstate=5&make=Honda&model=ACCORD&year=2003&version=4DR+EX&transmission=KA5AT&section=ENGINE&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&imageID=606850&illustrationID=11750&illustration=ENGINE) MOUNTING BRACKET (L4)

^ Thanks.  I think Honda frequently comes out with updated parts and hikes the price up for "newer" models (could be wrong though).

On a side note, it seems like everyone who's experiencing this noise also has aftermarket pulleys.  It sucks that this mod seems to be the cause of this tensioner failure... if that's what the problem actually is

Anyway, I found the installation instructions from UR, and here's exactly what it says for the belt (these instructions apply to the 02-06 rsx-s, 04-06 tsx, and "02-07 accord 2.4l sohc 16v" LOL:

"If the car has 30,000+ miles or if the belt has cracks, we recommend purchasing a new belt.  We recommend the use of Gates brand belts.
Accessory belt:  RSX - Re-use the existing stock belt or purchase a new stock size belt.
Accessory belt:  TSX - Use Gates K070683 (69.09 degrees or 1755mm)."

Maybe I goofed when I bought the pulleys by following the recommendation for the RSX and just grabbing a new OEM belt.  Maybe I should have followed the TSX recommendations and picked up a new sized belt.

Does anyone know the size (in mm) of the Accord's OEM belt?

Gates K070683 http://www.rockauto.com (http://www.rockauto.com) thats the belt the TSX guys are running..

the stock accord is 70in which is 1778 so that tsx belt from ur wouldnt work

Hmm, it seems that the site you provided says that the Gates TSX belt is model # K070690 (15/16" x 69 1/2"), while the Gates belt with model # K070683 (15/16" x 68 7/8") is recommended for the CRV, but not the TSX.  As a heads up, the stock Accord belt's dimensions are 15/16" x 70 3/4".  Input?

Also, here's some good links from Gates about the parts in question... maybe they'll help out with diagnosing my problem:

http://www.gates.com/file_display_common.cfm?thispath=Gates%2Fdocuments%5Fmodule&file=AutoTTHowTensionerWorks433%2D0796%2Epdf

http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=TroubleshootAccessDrives.pdf&folder=brochure

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666337 (http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666337)

this should help you guys.

http://www.tsobad.com/jtso/Images/Pulle ... 20Belt.jpg (http://www.tsobad.com/jtso/Images/Pulleys/Good%20Belt.jpg)

that is for the UR SS.

^  Yeh, I have those install intructions printed out and used them when I had the pulleys installed.  And btw, that 2nd link your provided doesn't work for me.


What's your definition of a "tad" shorter?  The stock Accord belt is 70 3/4", while the recommended replacement from Gates (part# K070683) is 68 7/8".  That's almost a 2" difference in length, which is more than a tad to me.  Plus, if my tensioner/pulley is already shot, won't buying a different belt solve nothing?

im willing to bet its the auto-tensioner.


just replaced mine due to knocking and its fine now.

^^ yeah but the cause of that going bad is related to not using the proper size belt for the pulleys..

Do you have a part # and price?  Also, how difficult was the install?

I called UR today and they basically said that the smaller belt is highly recommended.  I guess the RSX-S owners don't need to worry about getting a new belt with the pulleys because the pulleys are pretty close in overall diameter to the stock pulleys.  However, TSX and Accord owners experience a decent enough size difference in the UR pulleys versus the stock ones to warrant a belt length change.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1425417,parttype,11659,a,www.google.com%2BSearch%2Bfor%2B2004%2BHONDA

the tsx belt is using 4070685 gatorback its 69.25 .... the next belt size up is 4070690 69.75.. which in terms should be enough to relieve the tension

Can anyone confirm that buying the belt from Gates (part # K070683) has fixed their noise issues?

Damn, I gotta get this fixed asap.  When I turn on the a/c and then turn the steering wheel to the extreme right or left, the squeeling turns into a clapping noise.  Spraying the tensioner pulley bolt with some silicone spray helped a little (thanks Tim), but it doesn't last long before the sound comes back.  I hope the shorter belt does the trick.

anything on this?

I'm putting the shorter Gates belt on on Tuesday when I get my oil change, so we'll see.  Crossing my fingers that it fixes the problem, and maybe even some of my accessories (a/c, ps, alt) will get a little extra juice with the smaller belt.  That'd be a nice bonus.

Only reason why they'd be lacking in performance is if your belt is slipping.  Is your belt slipping too?

Well when the engine is under tougher loads (a/c on, power steering engaged), the squeal turns into a clapping noise, which Thien identified as "belt clap", which I believe is a form of slipping, so I think so.

Ahhh.  Well, let us know what happens on Tuesday.  Hopefully the new belt will fix your problem, but at least you have a course of action to take if it doesn't.

Yeh, buy a new tensioner assembly.  Boo.

Well guys, my mechanic had my car at his shop all damn day and guess what, the Gates replacement belt that Unorthodox Racing recommends for our cars DOESN'T EVEN FUCKING FIT!!  It's too damn small!!  My mechanic tried numerous times to squeeze the belt onto the pulleys and it wouldn't even come close.  He spent so much time trying different things with the belt that he couldn't even get to half the other shit I had scheduled for my car!  I'm pissed beyond belief.  I even talked to a rep. at UR today to get some help and he said that when they tested it on an Accord with the underdrive pulley set, it fit, but "might be tough to get on".  Well, they're wrong, so now I need to call them and tell them that they're test car was a dud.  So, it's back to square one.  I still wanna try to replace the belt first before I jump to the next fix if need be, which would be the tensioner assembly.  So, here's what I know of in regards to other belt options at this point from Gates:

Stock Accord belt is 70 3/4" (Gates part # K070701)
Recommended Gates replacement belt is 68 7/8" (Gates part #K070683) - this is apparently way too small, and the size difference from the stock Accord belt is pretty drastic
The next belt size up is 69 1/8" (Gates part #K070685)
Stock TSX & CRV belt is 69 1/2" (Gates part #K070690)
Stock RSX-S belt is 68 5/8" (Gates part #K070680) - this'll be way too small as well

Hopefully those part #'s and sizes are accurate, and I'm also open to other brands of belts at this point.  So, what size do you guys recommend?  Maybe something no more than 1/2" to 1" smaller than the stock one?  Help me out so I don't ditch the modding game for good.

Dave, when you're talking about belt lengths, are you quoting the outside length or the effective length?  Because if you're posting the outside length, there are Gatorback belts that have a 70.25" (7PK1765) and 69.75" (7PK1755) outside length, which would be that 0.5"-1.0" reduction in length you're looking for.  Here's the GoodYear Gatorback (http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=3128) site for you to check the other available lengths.

There are 60 million belt options out there don't let this little issue knock you out of the game!

Tim, I am quoting the outside length in my post above.  Should I be focusing more on the effective length instead?  It's just a god damn shame because the belt I got is the one that Unorthodox recommends for the Accord with these pulleys, so either they're clearly wrong or my car is stubborn.  I'd rather stick to the Gates brand, but I can look into Gatorback too if necessary.

You may want to check the gates website to see what lengths they offer.  I wouldn't over think this, you're liable to complicate a simple task that should be as easy as running down to Auto Zone and taking 15 minutes to swap the belt.  Just make sure that you either stick with one or the other, effective or outside length when comparing the size from what you have.

^ Tim, I know this.  Plus, the outside length is easier to cross-reference when looking up lengths from other companies besides Gates.  

Levi actually wrote to me on Car Domain and suggested that I look into Gates part # K070694, which is a 70" belt made for the Honda Element (ah, K-series engine).  Considering that the other belt sizes the guys over at UR are suggesting that I try next which still seem to be too small, this belt that Levi suggests seems like a good length to try out as it assumably will fit... snuggly.  Any thoughts?

Not seeing the belts, and how close the 68 7/8's belt was to fitting it's tough to tell. Do you think taking 3/4 of an inch off the accord belt will take up the slack?

Not 100% sure.  I really don't wanna go through a ton of trial and error with belt after belt only to find out that it's not going to work.  Levi suggested 70".  Thien suggested a belt only 5mm smaller than the stock Accord one.  It's a mystery.  I'm surprised no one else with these pulleys has gone out and gotten a different sized belt and chimed in.

I would probably go with Thien's suggestion but, that's my opinion. Any reduction in size should help the problem your having.

we are all waiting on you dave...

Don't hold your breath.

OK, so after doing more research over at Acurazine today, I came to one hypothesis.  The size difference between the stock Accord pulleys versus the UR ones is .375"... as in the UR pulleys overall are .375" smaller.  So, if I got a belt that was .375" (or more) smaller than the stock 70 3/4" Accord belt, I should be good, correct?

... any thoughts?

I honestly think you should go but a few different belt sizes and see what fits.  Time to just pull the trigger.

I got a 70" one today, so we shall see...

Well, I was able to get the Gates 70" belt (part # K070694 - for the Honda Element) to fit today after another day with the car at the shop.  My tensioner indicator arrow is now halfway in between the long rectangle on the auto tensioner, so it's back within spec.  The belt was a tight squeeze, but it seems to be a good fit for the UR pulleys.  As of now, the new belt has eliminated the squealing noise I was hearing with the A/C on, and it has also eliminated the knocking noise that was heard when the steering wheel was turned all the way left or right.  I also had my mechanic check again on a knocking noise that was happening when I would tap the throttle from a dead stop, which I thought was my exhaust hitting somewhere, but upon using a stethoscope, he found out that the knocking was also coming from the tensioner as it was probably maxing itself out when the gas was pressed.  So, the belt has eliminated this noise as well.  I can still hear an odd, repetitive noise with every full rotation of the belt and the tensioner seems to shimmy a bit, but it's much more bearable than before.  Once the belt stretches itself out, we'll see if it holds up.  It might only be a temporary fix and the tensioner could damn well be experiencing pre-mature failure, so only time will tell.  Either way, time to call UR and tell them the correct belt size for the Accord.  

This is good to hear man.

Yes.  Even though the tensioner's prolly busted too.

Ok Dave, you still owe me $49.99 for the diagnostic. Cough it up. HAHA

I wonder if I should get the belt before I have any problems, too. I did notice that after getting my Ralco pulleys installed, there is a new unique sound coming from the right side of the engine bay (if I was sitting in the driver's seat). It sounds like it's coming from the engine itself, but it's hard to tell. It has that deep throaty sound like from the intake, but on a smaller scale. I can only hear it when I'm barely touching the throttle to get up to speed. Any more than that and my intake drowns it out. The weird thing is that it's not a squeeling or slapping noise from the tensioner.

Ha.  You sound like a Honda dealership, though I believe they charge like $60-$75 just to diagnose things.  Total ripoff.

After calling them yesterday, UR should now be updating their installation instructions for this pulley set with the better belt option for the Accord.

And Jeff, iono.  Try to figure out the sizes of all your Ralco pulleys and get a better belt (if needed) earlier rather than later.

See, I saved you $10.01. Haha. Where's my money????

^  Do you take pennys?

Sure

Actually, how much to hook me up with a new tensioner?

You'd probably want to talk to someone that works for Acura or Honda for that.  They may be able to get you a better deal.

^ I thought he did.  Guess not.

Nope, I work for Firestone. Skippy is the Acura guy. There is a guy here in CO that is a selling a tensioner for $30.

Yeh, I confused you with Skippy.  Woops.

Who's the guy with the $30 tensioner?

Its a guy over here in Colorado. He has it posted on Craigslist.

New?  Used?  Link?

Brand New.

http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1401271341.html (http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1401271341.html)

Hmm, it doesn't look exactly like the one on my car, but I'll contact him anyway.  Thanks.

No problem. Well, I was looking up part numbers. The TSX, Accord, and CR-V uses the same belt tensioner.

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but I want to prevent this problem from even starting. Where should the auto tensioner indicator be located? Here is a pic of mine with Ralco underdrive pulleys and reused OEM Accord belt:

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9739/autotensioner.jpg)

Judging from what Dave said, mine doesn't seem too far off. Would I be ok with it like this?

get a belt that is 1/4in longer i think you should be okay.

Longer? :O Do the Ralco pulleys really do that?

that was what chris told me. I never had a change to really test it. since my car is gone now.

i have the ur pulleys with a stock belt and havent had a problem yet, pullies have been on for over a year now.

Jeff, ideally the arrow should be more lined up with the longer rectangle and not the small square.  Mine was to the right of the square when it was making noise, so when it's within spec it should be more to the left (when referring to your pic).  Yours doesn't seem as far off as mine was, but it could get worse.  The underdriven aftermarket pulleys' overall diameter is smaller (for UR anyway, Ralco may be different) than the stock pulleys, so therefore, you should get a SHORTER belt than oem, not a longer one.  It'll tighten things up and pull that arrow back a bit.  That's why the 70" belt helped me.

Alright, thanks! I think I'll get the same belt as you. Where did you get it? I did a quick search yesterday, and found the belt on Amazon for not too bad of a price.

interesting do you have the SS one? because the ralco are stock belt layout but they are underdrive still. I think the UR SS are way smaller, but i could be wrong.

Gah, I wish I didn't lose the instruction sheet so I could do some comparing with the Gates belt it recommends.

^ Well Jeff, one thing you'll have to figure out before you go and buy a belt is the overall size of the Ralco pulley set as compared to stock.  I do indeed have the UR SS set, and the Ralco's may be different, so the 70" belt may or may not be ideal for you.  And I would't even bother with the fact that maybe the instructions recommended a "stock belt layout", because UR was in the same boat until I ran into issues, found a better belt, and then had to call them to have them update their instrcutions.  And I got my Gates belt from NAPA.  You can also look into Gatorback belts.

techinically the UR SS was based off the rsx-s motor. Not sure about the Ralco. I am pretty sure that the crank is the same size, the alternator is smaller, and the P/S is larger. I wish I had my old car I could probably measure them for you.

You are correct, and this is why UR had the belt size recommendation for the Accord all wrong for a while.

Alright, thanks. I sent Ralco an email asking about the size, but have yet to receive a response. I may have to just call them sometime.

Shit... I just watched that youtube video again... and realized that my car is making that same exact noise, only when the compressor kicks on. I need to get a belt ASAP. Fucking Ralco still hasn't responded. I think I'm going to try whatever is the next size larger than the 70" belt, since the UR pulleys were a lot smaller than Ralco (judging from the auto tensioner indicator).

Edit: Whoops, looks like the next size up would be back at the OEM length, lol. I need something in between 70" and 70.75", which Gates doesn't even have, lol. What are some other brand belts that I can look up? I know there's the Gatorback belts, but I'm not sure what exactly I'm looking for. Would this (http://www.goodyearep.com/productsdetail.aspx?id=3128) be the right type? I looked through that list, and saw a 70.25" belt, part #4070695 (7 ribs, right?). I think that one may have a chance at working. If it's still too big, then I guess I'll try the 70" belt. If it's too small, then I'll look around elsewhere for a 70.5" belt.

Try the GoodYear Gatorback belts.  They worked well for me on my SC before the manual tensioner set up made them jump and shred.

Alright, cool. I just went to Autozone and ordered the 70.25" belt (they didn't have any in stock but it'll be here this Thursday). If all goes well, I'll be returning it back to Autozone so I can order it on Amazon for half the price, lol. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Alright, I got the Gatorback belt installed, but the triangle is a little past the long rectangle. Do you guys think it'll stretch out over time and be fine?

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5228/dsc0741t.jpg)

Jeff, you have pm.  You'll notice that the noise is more noticable when the compressor comes on because it puts more load on the engine and thus the tensioner.  It's tough for me to recommend a correct belt size for you if what you say about the Ralco pulleys is true (that they are smaller than the UR ones).  But, just get one from any company and try the size, considering that I only bought a Gates one because that's the company that UR is buddy buddy with.  At this point, it'll be trial and error in regards to size, which is exactly what I had to go through.  You may want to take a better pic though because I can't really tell what side or angle your shot is from.  Good luck.

I actually said that the UR pulleys are smaller than Ralco. There's no way I would've been able to fit a 70" belt on, which is why I tried the next size up, 70.25". I'll get you a better pic tomorrow. Hopefully once I get this all sorted out we'll have some actual numbers that people can use from now on when installing their new UR or Ralco pulleys.

Edit: Hmm, it looks like the belt stretched out a little already. Now it's a little bit in the long rectangle.

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1903/dsc0739c.jpg)

Looks to me like this belt is a nice fit!

Seems good.  Maybe coulda done a 70.50" as well.

Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it. This makes me feel a lot better now that I don't have to worry about my auto tensioner going bad (if it isn't bad already). So, if anyone else seems to be running into these problems where you get that weird noise coming from your pulleys like in the OP, it'd be advisable to switch to the correct size belt.

Unorthodox Racing pulleys: 70" belt
     Gates part #: K070694
Ralco RZ pulleys: 70.25" belt
     Goodyear Gatorback part #: 4070695

On a slightly related note, I do remember there being something about Honda saying that it's normal to hear a sort of knocking noise from the engine, due to the fact that there's some kind of internal dampener or something along the lines of that. Is there any truth to that?

Oh yeh, my bad, I had it backwards.

I can't really comment on the knocking noise that you mentioned, although I don't think any knocking noise is normal per se.  Maybe someone else can chime in.

Well, I'd say it's more of a ticking noise. But that's a whole other thread. I was just curious.

hondas have self adjusting valves but overtime they engines dop develope valve knock, every honda i have ever owned has done this after some time. on another note i have the ur underdrive pulleys and i have been running the stock belt since day one. i have now had the pulleys for almost two years and approximatley 25,000 miles.

Well, the noise is starting to come back, even with the correct size Gatorback belt, which leads me to believe the auto tensioner pulley is shot. It doesn't make any sense because the last time I checked the pulley, it spun perfectly fine. I am going to check it again sometime, and spray some more WD-40 on it. If I do end up needing to replace it, is it better to replace just the pulley, or to replace the whole auto tensioner assembly?

I would replace the whole auto tensioner. A bearing inside the tensioner itself could be shot.

Try some silicone spray lubricant on it, not WD-40.

Alright, I sprayed some lube on it the other day, and the sound sorta went away, then later came back, but when I went to go see today if it's still making the noise, it's now gone. I took the belt off the pulley so I could spin it to feel how it is, it spun pretty freely, but I did notice one thing. The pulley itself is a little wobbly, like it's loose or something. Should it be like that, or could that be a part of my problem?

That is part of your problem. The bearing on that pulley was worn out causing it to wobble. Time to replace it.

Thanks Thien. How hard is it to replace? Just from looking at it, it looks like the power steering pulley assembly is bolted onto the tensioner, and it looks like it's only a couple of bolts. Is it just a take out, throw in, procedure?

I got the price for the tensioner at Bernardi Honda for $67.44 shipped, but I'm going to see how much it costs locally at one of my dealerships. Maybe I can check k20a.org too.

Once I replace the tensioner, I shouldn't have this problem again since I now have the correct size belt, right?

The tensioner isn't that hard to take off. There is only 2 bolts holding it down, and it is seperate from the P/S pump. The new tensioner should fix all your problems. Most tensioners are a pull out put back in job. Check out Hondapartsunlimted.com. They have a tensioner for $52.75. I'm not to sure on shipping, but it doesn't hurt to check it out.

http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/inde ... ion=ENGINE (http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=productdisplay&inputstate=5&make=Honda&model=ACCORD&year=2003&version=4DR+EX&transmission=KA5AT&section=ENGINE&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&imageID=699141&illustrationID=11750&illustration=ENGINE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) MOUNTING BRACKET (L4)

What I meant was the same bolts are used to hold both the auto tensioner and the P/S pump. I can see the two bolts too, one on the top of the tensioner, and one towards the front of the car, behind the P/S pulley. Am I correct on these descriptions?

I'm not to sure. I don't have a K24. Whenever I see one again at work, I will check it out and let you know if its connected to the P/S pump. I don't think it is though. Most tensioners aren't connected to anything else besides to the motor.

Alright thanks. If you want, I could take some pics of what I was talking about.

Also, I found someone on k20a selling one for $20 shipped. Only downside is that it has oxidation from "sitting in a damp basement". He said it still works though, and has 30k miles on it. Not sure if I want to get it because of the rust though. It wouldn't look so hot in my engine bay, lol. Unless there is some awesome way to remove the rust easy.  

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2790/4260448052_1e92389ed6.jpg)

I would pass on that.

Do you think it'd be easier to replace just the pulley itself, or is it too much of a hassle to do that? I'd imagine it just be easier to do the whole assembly at once since you don't have to worry about fucking something up with the pulley.

I would replace the whole tensioner. You can replace the pulley itself, but a lot of times they sell the tensioner with the pulley already attached. You might as well get a whole new tensioner. That way you don't have to worry about the tensioner going bad down the road if you just replace the pulley.

Alright. I also sent an email to Ralco RZ telling them about what happened, and gave them the information for the correct size belt. Hopefully they won't be stubborn about it.

I have an extra tensioner if you need one Jeff.  It's used, but it's a lot cheaper than a new one from Bernardi or Majestic.  It's pretty easy to replace.  From what I remember, you will need to remove your PS pump to get access to your tensioner.  It's very easy to do and shouldn't take longer than 15-20 minutes to replace if you take your time.

^ Yes Thien, the i4 will require that the power steering pump be moved out of the way before you can access the tensioner assembly.  This is not the case on the V6.

I bought Tim's auto tensioner, so I'll let you know how it goes whenever i get it. Maybe that whining noise that I was getting in my ECM diagnosis wars thread was due to my auto tensioner? lol. We'll see. That'd be nice.

^ Yeh, let us know if the problem gets fixed once you replace the tensioner.  I still may need to replace mine since the slight squealing noise in my engine is still audible as the pulley rotates with the belt.  Or maybe it's something totally different... who knows.  Sounds are so hard to diagnose (i.e. like trying to figure out where my exhaust is knocking now... ::sigh::).

I successfully replaced my auto tensioner assembly today. Man, what a difference. The old one made all kinds of noises if I held it up to my ear when I spun it. The one I got from Tim was dead silent. Plus, all the noises when idling went away. I'm so glad that it's all fixed now, lol.

Thanks for the help.

Glad to hear my parts and advice helped.

Nice & good to know.

Son of a bitch. I drove my car around today and then got home tonight, and noticed that the noise came back when I parked my car. It never fucking fails. I still think that the auto tensioner was bad though, because it made noises when I spun it by hand.

I can hear it pretty loudly if I listen to the passenger front wheel well, louder than from above the engine bay. It only appears when the car has been warm for awhile too it seems. Could it just be the material of the Ralco pulleys that makes them louder than the OEM ones when spinning? That's all that I could think of. I think I need to blow up my car. I may ask my exhaust guy to check the torque of the crank pulley (if you can do that). I doubt it's loose though, because the last time I checked it (which was during the diagnosis wars thread), it didn't wobble or anything. Besides, that would have ended very badly if it did wobble, lol.

I'm about ready to just accept the fact that this noise is not going to go away, lol.

On the bright side I guess, I know for certain that it's not the auto tensioner anymore. Plus this one can't get messed up since I've got the right size belt. It's just so fucking weird though because I've changed the belt AND the auto tensioner, and I'm still getting the same noise as the OP.

I'll keep investigating.

Tell me about it.  Sorry to hear that the issue wasn't fixed.  Based on where you're saying the noise is most audible, you might want to look into the crank pulley as a culprit.  However, noises are so damn illusive and hard to diagnose in cars that it could be coming from a totally different area altogether.  Also, I wouldn't necessarily say that a slightly incorrect sized belt would totally ruin an auto tensioner.  They're manufactured to "readjust" to changes for a reason... I think.  

Well, I just got back from the shop and they re-torqued the crank pulley to 181ft-lbs. It's still making that noise. The noise hasn't gotten as loud as it used to be since I changed out the auto tensioner, though. I'll have to make a quick video or something. Could it have something to do with the A/C compressor? Nothing's been done to the A/C system since the car has been bought. Other than it being the A/C, I have no fucking clue. I'm about ready to just throw in the towel and say fuck it.

My compressor made a ton of noise when it went.

Here's a quick video (it's still processing). Once again, the quality is shit so you can barely hear it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trl6VOnZ9DA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trl6VOnZ9DA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

so that saga continues!

When you get the noise Jeff, is your A/C running? I've got an idea to rule it out. Pick up a shorter belt that doesn't incorporate the compressor (not sure if that can be done but its an old trick I've used) and see if the noise persists. It can be a quick thing once you find the appropriate sized belt and you could always return it and the store wouldn't be the wiser. For ideas on getting the right size, use an old rope or something like that and route it like the belt is supposed to be run but don't go around the compressor. Once you have that, take the rope to the auto parts store and they can measure it to give you the right sized belt.

I can just barely faintly hear it when the AC is off, but when the AC kicks in it gets a lot louder.

Sounds like it could be the compressor/ compressor clutch. You could try my short belt idea to confirm.

I don't think the belt routing will allow a shorter belt to bypass the compressor.

That's why I said I'm not sure it would work. I haven't looked at the belt routing to confirm if it would or not.

Are there any other signs of the A/C compressor crapping out besides the noise? As far as I know, it blows pretty damn cold air.

Well, even a fully functioning compressor makes noise.

Not really but from what's already been described and ruled out its very possible its your compressor clutch and not the compressor itself. Unfortunately, I don't think you can get the clutch on its own and you'd have to replace the compressor as a whole to fix it.

Jeff, I know the noise is hard to hear in your video, but from my experience, I can identify it because I was experiencing the same exact noise... almost like a screeching/sqealing noise.  You may want to look into the A/C compressor (as I've still been contemplating doing myself), and the simple way to test if that's the culprit is exactly what you've already noticed:  you can hear the noise at idle with the A/C off, but once you turn on the A/C or defrost feature and the compressor kicks on, the noise gets 3x worse.  However, make note of this as well:  When I tried to fix this issue, I thought it had to do more with the auto tensioner and belt because the compressor puts more stress on the belt when it's on, and if the belt isn't the right size, then wallah, the tensioner goes more haywire than normal with the A/C on versus off.  Also, when my mechanic was using a stethoscope to check the noise, he pinpointed it to the belt and tensioner.  Just a though for ya.  I knows it's a pain in the ass.

Actually, you can buy the compressor clutch separately.  I know because I have one buried somewhere in my parts pile.

Damn, that sounds expensive for just a noise, lol. I did notice that the compressor makes a clack when it kicks on, but I figured that's normal because I've heard a lot of other cars that make the same noise. It's just that constant ticking noise when the A/C is on is what bothers me. If my car isn't in any harm, I guess I can just live with it. The ticking noise has gotten a lot quieter though since I replaced my belt and tensioner. It also takes awhile of the car being warm for the noise to come back.

the easy way to fix it is to just take off the pulleys and see what happens..i can bet money it wont make that same sound anymore

Maybe so... but then all of this would have been for nothing. The pulleys give a nice gain too. If it comes down to that, I can live with the noises, lol.

I tried listening to it again when I got home, and noticed that I can't hear it when the A/C compressor is off, but when it kicks on, it comes out of nowhere. Is it hard to change the compressor clutch?

Dave, did you say you're still getting this same noise as well? I know you said that when you changed belts it mostly went away... Does your car sound anywhere like mine right now? Or is it all gone for you?

It's kind of a PITA to do Jeff.

Fuck. Well, I could try a 70" belt... it wouldn't hurt anything to try. It may be hard as shit to put on though, lol. Other than that, it looks like it's either do nothing or have the compressor clutch replaced.

Edit: I officially hate unidentifiable noises. I sprayed some lubricant on the P/S pulley, and the sound immediately went away, but I don't fully trust this yet. I want to see this happen a few more times. Sometimes the noise can't even be heard if I haven't gone on the highway for a bit. This makes absolutely no fucking sense, because I sprayed lubricant on the pulley before, and it didn't do shit. I also noticed that my power steering fluid is a hair below the lower level mark. Could this be a coincidence with the P/S pulley maybe? I doubt it.

I'll post back when I have to go pick up my sister from school later today. I noticed that on my previous drive home from school today, the sound came back. If it does come back when I get home, I'm going to spray more lubricant on the P/S pulley. If the noise doesn't come back, then that should mean the lubricant is still working.

I fucking hate how elusive this noise has been! It makes me think it's one thing, then next thing you know it, it's something else, but not really, so now I'm back to square one. But wait, if I tried what I already did before, it goes away, but it comes back!  

I still have a faint squealing noise that I can hear as one of the pulleys rotates around.  It's probably the tensioner pulley, but I'm not positive on this.  The belt change helped out a lot, but it wasn't a complete fix.  I don't seem to hear a ticking noise though.  

Ahh, the joys of elusive noises.  Such fun.

I may be using the wrong description of the noise. It would be more of a squealing rather than ticking. So we could be in the same boat right now, lol.

Edit: Just got back from school, and the noise hasn't come back. I figured out where I can slightly hear it though. If I stand in front of the engine bay, directly in the middle, I think I can hear the P/S making that noise. Whether or not it's actually the P/S pulley, that's a whole different story. Do you think I could tighten it with the belt still on so that the crank keeps it held down, that way I don't have to secure the pulley by other means while I tighten it? Tightening it probably won't even do anything though. I am going to keep a close eye on it, and if the noise does come back when the compressor kicks on, I'm going to spray down the P/S pulley again to see if the noise will go away.

New video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVLZfcPfMAE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVLZfcPfMAE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

It looks pretty convincing. I'm going to take the bolt off then re-tighten it, and I'm also going to send an email to Ralco to see if they have any suggestions.

Edit: I took the bolt off then put it back on and re-tightened it.

I'm not too sure on what tightening the p/s pulley bolt more will do, but what you wrote above jogged my memory more (and good video too).  Sounds are a pita, and it probably sounds louder with the hood closed because the engine bay than becomes a hollowed-out sound chamber and the noise gets amplified.  But anyway, the noise you have is the same exact noise I had!  From what I remember, the noise was pretty faint at idle, and when the a/c compressor would kick on, it would get louder.  However, add to that the fact that when I'd turn the steering wheel and the p/s would have to engage as well, the sound would get even worse... almost like a screech!  So, it could very well be a p/s pulley issue.  However, I still think it might come down to the tensioner or belt more, with the a/c compressor and p/s just amplifying the noise because both items put more load on the engine.  I could be very wrong, but after changing my belt to a smaller size (and giving UR the RIGHT belt info), my squealing noise became very faint, even with all those other devices engaged simultaneously.  When they're all on and the noise is real bad, also try looking at the arrow on the auto tensioner and see if it's moving a bit back and forth rapidly like mine used to do.  If all else fails, have a mechanic take a stethescope to that bitch and see what they think.  Let's fix this noise and end your headaches bud!

P.S. - Where the hell did you get a black engine valve cover??

Haha, it's a black painted RSX-S valve cover that I got from Jeremy.

I didn't think about turning the wheels to engage the P/S. Does it stay engaged if I keep the wheels turned? I can't turn the wheels and watch the auto tensioner at the same time lol. I'll try it though when I get home today. If the auto tensioner indicator is shaking, does that mean that the belt is too loose? I've noticed that the belt has stretched out a shitload, and now it's a tad past the long skinny rectangle. That'll be a waste of 25 bucks if I have to get a shorter belt. It was a bitch to fit on the 70.25" belt anyways; I don't think I could get a 70" one on.

Made a third video today of the same thing. This time I kept the camera stationary so you can hear it better, but of course, the quality has to be shit on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXwEKOwKvu8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXwEKOwKvu8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

For now, I think you can chill with the videos because the sound reproduction when you upload them isn't the best.  Try running the car again, wait until the compressor comes on, and then see if you can have someone else slowly turn your steering wheel back and forth so that the p/s engages.  If the sound gets way worse and the tensioner indicator seems to "beat" back and forth, you know that you've either got a belt, auto tensioner, or p/s pulley issue.  The tensioner movement might not necessarily mean that the belt it too loose, but it's def. a sign that the tensioner is working overtime.  All belts will stretch after just a few 100 miles, but they shouldn't stretch too much, and besides, it still sounds like your arrow is within spec.  I know that my belt is 70", so that size is doable.  However, you have Ralco pulleys I believe, which are bigger than my UR ones, so 70.25" might be the smallest you can get.  Keep us posted, and if you narrow it down to the p/s pulley, I might be outside soon spraying lubricant on my p/s bolt rather than on my tensioner pulley bolt.

I had my sister turn the steering wheel while I was looking at the auto tensioner; the indicator didn't shake at all, and the noise didn't get any louder. The only thing I could hear was the audible of the car's RPMs dropping slightly then going back to normal. I'm thinking about trying it a second time so that I'm more certain about it. Edit: Just tested it again. It doesn't change the sound, just like what I previously said.

I'm also thinking about putting the stock P/S pulley back on and see how that goes. If the noise goes away, then that pretty much makes it obvious. If not, then god damnit, lol. What if I put some oil on the inside of the pulley before putting it back on?

Do you want me to take a pic of the auto-tensioner indicator now that it's stretched more? You said yours is inside of the long skinny rectangle, right? Mine's finally stretched passed that a little.

You can try reinstalling the stock pulley, but remember that it might cause some complications with fitment if it's a different size since you have the new belt now.  I don't know if putting on oil will do anything or not.  Don't worry about taking a pic of the tensioner indicator though; mine is also on the cusp of being passed the long rectangle, but it's been staying put for months.  Wouldn't it suck if after all of this, the noise was found to be more of an internal problem, and these aftermarket pulleys were to blame?  Oh boy.  

^ I'll try to hold back from  saying "I told you so" lol.  Now that the pulley is off, do you see any shards of metal anywhere?  If you do, that could be a sign of a problem because something's rubbing and wearing out.  Also, if I remember correctly, lubing things up is a good idea because I think it's been recommended that all the pulleys get lubricated somehow before installation.

No shavings or anything. There was some crusty stuff in the threads (not metal), which I thought was the anti-seize that the shop put on before putting the pulley on. I cleaned everything off, cleaned the pulley back to a shine, put some oil on the shaft, pulley, and bolt, then put it back on and tightened it. I just got back from a test drive, and no dice. Still making the noise.

I guess if I look at the bright side of things, the noise isn't nearly as loud as before when I even started doing any of this stuff. Back when I had just the pulleys and OEM belt, it was so loud that I could hear it inside my cabin, windows up, and music at low volume. Now I can't even hear it unless I get out of the car and stand in front of the engine or at the passenger side wheel well.

I'm all out of ideas barring putting all the stock pulleys back on. Then all of this would've been a waste of my time and money. I'd rather waste my time and money on something worthwhile, haha.

Let's just blame it 70% on the belt size, and 30% on the auto tensioner, which is what I did.  Loose belt = noisy, tight belt = less noisy.  Then cross our fingers that it doesn't get worse again.

Alrighty then, problem solved! haha. I may go over to Autozone one of these days and pick up a 70" belt just to see if it does anything. If I can't get it on, no biggie. If I can, and the noise doesn't go away, then I'll use belt to strangle someone with.

.....or to hang your self with.

... oh boy...

Well, I keep becoming more convinced that it has something to do with the P/S pulley. Every time I spray that lubricant on it, the sound IMMEDIATELY goes away for a little bit. Unless... the lubricant causes less friction on the pulley which in return causes less friction on the whole serpentine system, which somehow fixes the problem. School's almost over, so I'm going to see if I can slap on a 70" belt, although I remember it being a pretty tight fit for the 70.25" belt.

Would having too tight of a serpentine belt cause any problems, as opposed to having too loose of a belt?

^ Beats me.

A belt that is too tight is going to put extra stress on the bearings in your idler pulley.  A smaller belt will probably make the problem worse.  You may want to try and replace the idler pulley instead of the entire auto tensioner assembly.  It shouldn't be more than $20 to replace the pulley.

Well, I installed the auto tensioner that you sold me awhile ago, and it didn't really change much. My old auto tensioner did feel notchy if I spun it by hand, but I still feel like it has something to do with the P/S pulley, and not the belt or tensioner. That's the thing, though. I have no way of knowing for sure. Goddamn noises, lol.