EliteCM.net

ok since i use amsoil and Paul and some other guys said that it would need to be changed more offten then 10K. what would be good replacement full synthetic oil?
i paid about $55 for oil and synthetic filter from Amsoil and that's with my 20% discount that i had

so whats good? i dont think mobile 1 is good

i guess still want to stay with 0W-30 from Pauls recommendation a while back

I always thought Mobile 1 was good that's why I've always used M1 5w-30. You can get a 5qt jug and pick up a filter for around $25 at Walmart.

5W-30 is not full synthetic

Oh ok. So that's why some people are using the 0w-30?

^^yes. according to Paul thats full synthetic and not the blend

Gotcha.

Pennsoil Platinum 5w30 is a really good oil.   Better than mobil 1 5w30, although there are a lot of oils that are.

GRP III oils are considered synthetic today.  PP uses GRPIII base with esters (GRP V) while Mobil 1 uses GRP III base with PAO's.  The additive pack is what distinguishes a good oil from a great one.

What's PAO's?

I just changed mine from Mobil 1 5W20 full synthetic to Valvoline SynPower 5W20 full synthetic. I heard Valvoline is kick ass stuff

I've been using Pennsoil Platinum 5w-20 in the winter and 5w-30 during the summer. After my supply is done, I'm gonna stick with 5w-20. I'm waiting on my next oil change to get this oil analyzed to see how long I can go with this stuff.

i use to put valvoline syn on my car then switch to mobil 1 syn, the car felt smoother

Right now am using mobil 1 synthetic but am thinking of going back to Castro synthetic

i guess ill just stay with amsoil with 5k change, unless i find something better and based on results i get from tests

PAO's are what used to be called full synthetic.  3 or 4 years ago however, castrol realeased a Group III oil that whas highly purified and advertized it as full synthetic.  Mobil sued them and subsequently lost and soon it was the the properties of the oil, not the base stock that was considered the definition of synthetic, although you'll never find a synthetic with group II oils.  Subsequently everyone, including Mobil 1, switched to at least partial group III oils.  


For more information look at this article: Click Here (http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html)
 It's a bit out of date, but for the most part still accurate.

Hears what they say about PAO's


For an shorter, more detailed, and more accurate article, check out What's in your oil (http://bobistheoilguy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62:article-of-the-month&catid=35:content&Itemid=71) from bobistheoilguy.com.

Amsoil is still among the best oil you can buy.  Pensoil platinum is popular becasue it is 95% as good for 1/2 the price, and for some people cars, actually better than Amsoil.  That being said, the honda K24 engines (along with the 2.2L GM ecotec) are the two slowest wearing engines you can buy with any oil.  The J30 isn't as good but still doesn't wear super fast.  Unless you live in antartica, or the north pole, there really isn't any point in running super expensive amsoil, when Pensoil Platinum and Valvoline SynPower have just as good or better wear numbers, but not quite as good extreme (-50F and below) cold weather performance.  If your going to run amsoil, at least do yourself a favor and get it analized as you'll probably find you can go 6-15000 miles on one change.  PP and SynPwr are usually only good for 6-12000 miles, depending on your driving styles, and motor.  The J30 suffers from fuel dilution though, so you probably won't get more than 8-9000 miles per change under best case consitions with any oil.

I've been using M1 5W20 since I switched to synthetic.  I had to use Penzoil (synthetic something or other) 5W20 once when wally world didn't have any M1 5W20.  I may have to try out the 0W20 this summer.  I still have a 5 quart jug of 5W20 though.

That is far from proven about Mobil 1. There is a huge amount of supposition and not one shred of proof. Don't tell me to read Bobistheoilguy, I'm member #409........been there a loooonnnggg time.


Prove it! No one else has been able to. Rumors are just that until proven.

Even the Group lll Amsoils are holding up well past their 7500 mile guarantee........so ?  NO ONE except a lab can tell you how long you can run an oil in your car, there are too many variables to even consider that.  There are so many excellent used oil analysis' with Amsoil running 20K+ miles it will amaze you. Do yourself a favor and pay for a used oil analysis...........let SCIENCE give you the required information to make an informed decision. So and so says this and so and so says that is just crap, get some facts.

You think Mobil 1 is no good? Why? What proof do you have or are you going by what somebody said??? I used M1 0W20 in my Accord and had it analyzed at 8500 miles (2.4l not the 3.0l). The lab that tested it said to run it to 10K and recheck. At 10K the analysis showed it was still in good shape and run it to 12K. At 12k it wasn't shot but it was time to change. You're right, it's obviously no good  

The point of my babble here is use your head and science to determine which oil works best in your car and when to change it. "My Buddy knows about oil" just don't cut it. For a complete no brainer use any name brand 5W20 and change it every 5K along with a new filter and forget about it. The engine will last longer than you'll want the car.

Rick the fossil has spoken.

I thought it time for some common sense to be spoken concerning the oil thing. Many of the statements are correct and well said, others are not.

Actually, conserning mobil one, there's evidnece they use some group III oil, including the way the changed the wording on thier website from stating that only grp IV + oils were used, to stating that it includes grp IV oils.  We all know they use quite a bit of it in thier formulation (witness how mobil 1 disappered from shelves when their PAO plant shut down), but to assume they use only grp IV+ because they used to is being nieve.  Mobil 1 oils (esp 5w30) have quite high wear numbers, but nobody seems to know if this is from higher wear or from superior cleaning.  Given the 4x better and 8x better than mobil ads out lately, it may be higher wear.  That being said, mobil 1 is a very good oil and no-one has to worry about using it. Until mobil 1 comes out and states they do or don't use some grp III, we can't prove they do or don't, but a bit of common sense and research will indicuate that they have switched to grp III partly, with at least some of their product line.  If they only used PAO's you'd think they'd state it on there website (they used to) and public relations material, but they don't anymore.

Of course, before people get the wrong idea, using a bit of group III doesn't mean that it's a poorer oil.  It may have enhanced some properies of the oil(burn-off, cost, etc), while keeping the best ones of a pure PAO oil.

As to say mobil 1 is not full synthetic, I agree, Prove it.

I agree with all said and they may very well have changed the formulation but it is yet unproven. One of the finest synthetics available is Schaeffers which is a group lll oil and they are a blend!

From the oil tests I have read, M1 oils are quite good and will easily last 7,000 miles.

Agreed, they certainly did for me.

0W20 from M1 FTMFW!!!!

what do you all think about Royal Purple motor oil?  i've been using it and i like it, but don't know if i can justify buying it for so much.

i heard its not as good. it doesnt last long,

is it true that once you go to a synthetic oil, you can't go back to a regular oil?

I do RP every 5k. I'll do a UOA in about 2k

whatever's on sale.  change after 5K miles, no worries.

Not at all.  You can go to synthetic and back to regular or mix the two or whatever.

castro syntec edge works great for me

5w-20 Castrol GTX every 3500 miles.

This thread is a good example of the range of intelligence across the forum. Some people have good information to share and they should be praised for it. Others are just wasting space and helping me wear out the scroll wheel on my mouse.
Anyway, this makes me want to research a lot more about oil and maybe I'll be able to find the truth behind all the bs.

For those who use Mobil 1 Advance Auto is having a sale til 6/24 on M1 Extended performance synthetic and M1 filter for $23.99 I believe.

would you guys recommend m1 filter when using mobil 1 5w-20? i used an oem filter...

Honestly, it does not matter.

I've used both of these filters...both are quite good...the M1 can probably go a bit longer (7k miles)...but the OEM ones are about 1/2 the price and 90% as good.

I have always heard that Fram makes the Honda filter, so I dont use it.

Not true at all.  Take a look at this oil analysis for a 2007 accord. The guy ran royal purple for 12k miles and it did very well.  You guys need to stop repeating things you hear, and back up your claims with evidence.  

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... ost1380196 (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1380196#Post1380196)

Synpower is indeed a good oil. This guy ran it for 9k miles in his accord and all of the wear parameters came back great.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... ost1175985 (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1175985#Post1175985)

I've been doing a lot of reading about oils lately.  Honda builds great engines that wear VERY slowly.  You can put almost any oil in a Honda engine and it will wear very well.  I've seen reports of people running conventional motorcraft 5w-20 in a Honda engine for 8K miles and the results come back above average.

royal purple is that shit. i use all royal purple products and have never been disappointed, the only thing is its about 50$ for an oil change doing it yourself.

i would not run that for 8K


ran my amsoil 0W-30 full synthetic and full synthetic filter for 9K and test results came back ok but they said not to use it for more then 7k based on results

I forgot to mention that oil break-down is very dependent on the following things:

-Environmental conditions (hot vs. cold)
-Driving style
-Average trip duration (long vs. short)
-Highway vs. city miles

Because of these variables, the usable life of motor oil will vary from vehicle to vehicle running the same oil, in the same engine.  The only way to determine the max life of your oil is to have a sample tested.  Synthetic oils are designed to last much longer than a conventional oil.  Changing synthetic oil at 3k miles is like replacing your tires with 50% tread left....dont waste your money.

Here's some questions.  I usually always run Mobil 1 5w-20 full synthetic.  But, everytime I buy my batch I get torn between trying their semi-new "gas saving" 0w-20 brand, or their extended performance 5w-20 brand.  I already kind of understand the possible benefits of 5w-30 in our cars, but does anyone have a factual say when it comes to the different choices that Mobil 1 offers?

^ Anyone?

I dont know Dave. Dont always believe the hype when they say "gas saving". To really tell what benefits you're gonna get, you would need to get the oil analyzed cuz like Greg mentioned everyone's car, driving style and environment aren't the same. I think gas and moisture affect the oil characteristics as well. So if you wanna try a different oil then by all means go ahead as long as its 0w-20, 5w-20, or 5w-30.

What company are people here going through to get their oil analyzation kit and then getting their oil analyed?  Is it expensive?

Blackstone labs. The kit is free. They send you a kit, you put ya oil sample, send it back to them with a payment for $22.50 (that's the cost to do the analysis), wait for results. Here's the link ---> Oil Analysis Test Kit (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html)

0w-xx oils are designed for really cold-starting conditions.    

The truth is this: 99% of people using a synthetic oil (PP, M1, etc) will notice no difference gas mileage, engine performance or wear whether they use 0w-20, 0-w30, 5w-20 or 5w-30 oils. Buy whats on sale and forget about it!

I would feel completely fine using regular old Pennzoil (non-synthetic) in any Honda engine with a 5K change interval.  The quality of motor oils has improved drastically over the last 20 years.  Practically all motor oils today are detergent oils...the days of sludge are really a thing of the past.  Plus, engine gunk/sludge is often the result of a poorly made engine and not the oil.  Honda engines are so well designed you could practically run them for 100k on cooking oil!

sooo Bump from the dead. I just bought some puralotor pureone filters on amazon 2 for 9.99. And going to get redline old. want it basically devolve any crap that was in the motor that was left over from the first 2 owners. I will tell you how that goes.

That's what I'm using right now. So far so good!

You guys should read this if you haven't already:
http://elitecm.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1901

What's Everybody's take on Honda Oil?  Just got a coupon in the mail for a $19.95 oil change and after reading this thread I'm switching to dino oil.  Torn between Going down the block to the castrol place and getting GTX and just getting a Honda oil change.

Honda oil is fine. Generally over priced but, its okay

I've been using Mobil non-synthetic oil.  I think Paul uses Castrol non-synthetic on all his builds.

Good to know. Thanks for the input.

The question was brought up on the TCC site about switching back from synthetic to conventional oil and whether once you use synthetic you can't switch back.  My response was as follows:

"I think that used to be back in the day, when synthetic oil had additives that would expand the seals.  I don't think they use those additives anymore.  Once you switched from Synthetic to regular oil, the seals would shrink again and your engine would leak oil like the Exxon Valdez"

To the best of anybody's knowledge, am I correct in my statement?

You can go from Syn to reg oil and vise versa. Why do you think they make blends? I’ve always been told it makes no difference. I run Mobil 1 syn in my S2k.

I actually ran Syn in the Accord and back to reg oil for awhile, when it got $100 to do a damn syn oil change lol and then I went back to Syn. 150+ miles later, no issues

Right, that's what I thought. So I am correct. Thank Jer.

I have run Mobil 1 5w-20 from when I first got the car in 03 w/ 8mi on it til around 90k.  I then tried Royal Purple and loved how it ran.  Engine got noticeably smoother.  Ran that until about 140k.  I now run O'Reily's 5w-30 synthetic.  This is due to several things  It meets the same standards as other synthetics, costs a lot less, have not noticed a difference between it and Mobil 1 as far as performance, car does go through about a quart every 5k, and have seen several articles that show that most generic brand synthetics are just a good as the name brands on bench tests.
I still feel that Royal Purple is better but is just to expensive right now.  Might use it before track days only.  I am now going to a 3k interval due to the extra heat and wear of being boosted.
As for oil filters, I go with only Honda oem.  They are made by Filtec, Honeywell, Fram*, and Toyo-Roki.  Most are Filtec.  If you want to know for sure, it is stated on the filter.  They have to meet Honda's standards and have never done me wrong.
*Fram is owned by Honeywell, not sure why some are labeled one way and some the other.
The way I see it, if I want to know how my oil is doing I will pull off my valve cover and look at the condition of the head.  When I pull the head off my wife's boosted 89 Prelude last year to do a head gasket, I was stunned at how clean it was.  It was spotless.  It was not this clean when we put it in 40k earlier.  It was this clean because we change the oil methodically every 3k.  We use Honda dino oil every time.  To me that tells me that now days it is more of how good you are at sticking with the change interval than whether you are using the most amazing oil on the market.
Just my .02.

Yikes!  Don't do that!  It's bad for the s2k, Mobil 1 oil is too thin for it..

http://elitecm.net/forums/index.php?topic=1901.0 (http://elitecm.net/forums/index.php?topic=1901.0)

Apparently not too good for J engines either

Nope after i read that thread I switched to Dino oil. Cheaper too!!

"Dino" meaning conventional (non-synthetic), right?  :angel:

Yes Dave that is correct. I switched to 10W30 per Pauls suggestion today, and my car is running a lot quieter.

Well, you have a J-series and I have the K, so I'll prolly still stick with 5w-20 synthetic as per the manufacturer's specs, unless someone can present a really strong argument against it (other than the $7.50/quart price tag).

Dino = short for dinosaur

I'd like to add to the discussion about which is better than the other, but I'm just not armed with enough information.  I know Rick always said there is a lot of good information on Bob Is The Oil Guy (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/) when he posted on here.  One thing that I did pick up in casual conversation with someone else is about the frequency of oil changes.  When doing a head swap, they noticed the condition of the tops of the pistons and how dirty (for a lack of better words) they looked.  After the head swap, they maintained the motor and changed the oil every 3,000 miles (with dino oil I believe).  A while later, they pulled the head for one reason or another (I didn't remember the specifics) and they noticed that the pistons were a lot cleaner than before the head swap.   A lot of people are being told that their oil doesn't break down as quickly and they don't need to change it for 5,000, 10,000, or even 20,000 miles based on the oil analysis.  That may be true, but that only seems to be part of the story.  Please remember, this is not my personal experience, but it was relayed by a reliable source.

My oil change light usually comes on around the 4,250-4,500 mark.  I'll just follow that.  I plan on doing a J33 conversion around the water pump and timing belt replacement time anyway.  Until then, my Honda will take the abuse I give it and it's gonna like it, if it knows whats good for it.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2200800&gonew=1#UNREAD (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2200800&gonew=1#UNREAD)

Ummm, what?  Any frame of reference or something?