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i was looking at the vafc and vafcII would they really do any good for our cars since we dont have real vtec? what would be the upside to getting it if any? i/h/e/im/pulleys/tb are the upgrades so far.

We do have VTEC, unfortunately its the economy version of it. Whereas the performance VTEC or "real VTEC" crossover is around 5400 (I think) where our economy VTEC or "not real VTEC" crossover is at 2200. The VAFC isn't a beneficial upgrade for our engines nor is it ideal for any engine for that matter. All it really does is switch the VTEC engagement point to whereever the tuner sets it at, but doesn't do much with the fuel and oil demands the engine needs when in VTEC. The best option out there for true performance tuning are standalone EMS's. You can do piggybacks, but they are not worth the money wasted on them.

ok cool , so has anyone tried the greddy e-manage cause i was looking into that and having a buddy tune it on the dyno obviously

That I don't know. I do know of a few people running K Pro. The only people I can think of that could run the E manage would be the J series guys. Paul (NVA AV6) would be the guy to tell you.

hm cause ive heard of it on the k24 with quite a few people i just dont know the results they got the the greddy emanage

* we also dont have vtec on the exhaust cam.

Greddy e-Manage are too me and a lot of other people junk piggy back management. Your best choice is to save up and get K-pro or AEM FIC.

VAFC's are a waste of money, and I've heard from a lot of reliable sources that Greddy eManage is pretty buggy and unreliable.  If you have a K24, your best option would be KPro.  AEM FIC is good too, but KPro is better and worth the extra money.

Yes and No Tim, it depends on what hes doing, either way if your just tryna make some extra hp with no bolt ons,.. you might make 5, 10 at the most with the stock setup, but for F/I the F/IC will be fine for you. If your going N/A and possibly an engine build get k-pro definately.

I say this because most likely you'll have to retard timing with F/I and it cannot advance timing, K-pro can and will do much more but for an extra $700 cost to ya over a F/IC.

So decide what you wanna do and then get a tuning solution appropriate for your plans, unless you got boat loads of cash sitting around :P  Either way stay away from VAFCs and E-manages!

No Im pretty sure we do, but as always Skip will come in to confirm for all of us. But I think its the CRV a1 that doesnt have it on the exhaust cam.

To be quite honest, it does not matter if you're going for a FI or NA application when you're building a motor.  It's a matter of which engine management system works the best.  For K24's, hands down it's going to be KPro (regardless of FI or NA application) with the AEM FIC coming in second.  You're right about staying away from eManage or VAFC's though.

As far as the exhaust cam having VTEC, that's a negatory since there's only one cam lobe.

Timmy is correct.  I hate how I sometimes don't get update emails when posts are made....it makes it harder for me to jump in and give my opinion before somebody beats me to the punch.

Timmy is quite correct though, our exhaust camshafts lack VTEC lobes.  We only have VTEC on the intake side.

has anyone used F/IC to tune NA setup? I only seen them on F/I.

Im too poor to get Kpro right now maybe after this summer since I will be working 2 jobs hopefully.

Doesn't make much sense to get the FIC and have it tuned, just to get KPro down the road and pay for another tune.  Do it right the first time.  You're going to spend more money if you get the FIC first, then KPro later, than if you just bought KPro in the first place.  I honestly don't understand why people say they can't afford to buy something, but then tell us about their half assed plans to do it a different way that's going to cost more money then if they did it right the first time.

what if I just want to do cams and retainers and call it a day. I won't be going F/I or any huge N/A just want to get it tuned for BC stage 2 cams. Probably the last mod I do to my car besides all the bolt on. Like if I was going for 250whp + I totally jump on kpro. But as of now I am looking for 180whp-200wh since that auto tranny going to Nada if i F/I or frank it... So yeah

Kpro is the right way to do it but you could probably skimp by using an FIC...the results won't be as awesome though....unfortunately hondata holds a monopoly in the market....I can't speak negatively of them though....I used to own one of their ECU's and they're incredible pieces of equipment.  I'll buy another one when the economy gets better so I can build my freaking engine already!

I totally agree with you kpro is FTW but the price tag is FTL.. like about 1500 for kpro + harness to make it work for 20hp/20tq is good but for just bolt ons and not headswap or F/I plan down the line it is kinda useless.

Also I live in CA and that check engine light always on is going to be a really pain in the ass when I need to get it smogged.

P.S TY Tim and Skip for the info

Cham has worked out a way around the CEL, which involves modifying your gauge cluster.  I'll try to post pics when we do mine.

alright thanks tim. Lets see if I can get the civic si or rsx ecu for cheap. Last time I saw it on ebay for 10 + shipping and I didn't wake up early enough it buy it...

I'll guess i should save up still and just see what you guys are doing. And it is great that the CEL got fix. that is an auto fail for smog. and I agree I should just do it right the first time but I am still not sure what I want to do and the auto tranny is no help unless someone release a tq converter for it.

Level-10 has been modifying transmissions for a while and all of their work is custom.  Their services are expensive but worth it if you're serious about modifying an Automatic Transmission.  For the money you may pay with level 10 you may be able to get a TSX tranny swapped in, that will definitely improve performance.

From expirence at least with the V6's, level 10 is not all that expensive when compared to having the stock transmission repaired. A new transmission from honda is almost = in cost to one from level ten in a J30 aplication i'm not sure about the K series transmission pricing.

Alright that kool. My main goal was to S/C with a kraftwerk but i know the tranny going to be a problem. I was wondering what is the difference between the 1000 one and the bullet proof one *3000*. I am not that familiar with tranny upgrades.

The $1000 kit replaces all the seals, clutches, gaskets, and rings for the auto transmission.  It's basically a tranny rebuild kit with better parts.  The $3000 kit includes the $1000 kit plus an upgraded valve body, lockup valve, and super solenoid.  It does not include the performance torque converter though, which is another $1000.  In short, these guys will rebuild anything on 4 wheels with custom parts.  For what you're going to pay with level 10, it will probably be on the level of swapping to a TSX tranny, which I would suggest in lieu of performing AT mods.

I am going to start a new trend now. keep high jacking his trend lol

Yeah.. Way costly. like I said before I really don't want to drop 6k into my car. I would love to swap to Mt but damn 3k... LoL I think I'll just do Cams and all bolt on with a tunes and be done with it. I need to ask cham how much is it to kpro when I provide the ecu. I am trying to get a EP3 ecu or a base rsx.

So basically here is my build idea

BC stage 2 cams =500
BC springs 250  OR  BC dual spring =325
BC TI retainers =200
kpro + harness 1350 OR AEM FIC + harness =500
Tuning 185/hr guessing 3hr tops to tune everything = 555
Labor for putting Cambs 100/hr maybe 6hr? =600

this is like maybe... 180-200whp with all bolt on
Labor and tuning is a killer...

So about 2200~3000 at most

man head swap looking good right now..
RSX or TSX head 600~700
TSX piston with rods and rings 200
rsx-s oil pump 150
timing chain 100
head gasket 120
kpro + harness 1350
labor to put it all in ?? 1500 bucks?
Tuning 185/hr umm 5hrs? 925

this is make 250whp for sure will all bolt on

~5000 maybe Labor and tuning is a killer here also...

 I am also missing other stuff like injectors, wide band o2 and some other stuff, am can't recall from the top of my head. Anyways I'll see how much I can make this summer and go from there.

Skip how much are you spending for your build?

Thread, not trend
Cams, not cambs

You're better off taking the time to do it right the first time instead of half assing it and then finding yourself wanting more.  If you're not doing the labor yourself, it's just going to cost you more in the end.  With my build, I'm only planning on having the shop tune it, but I will probably be doing the install myself to save money.  I'd also tack on another $500-800 for injectors and wideband O2 sensor and all the other miscellaneous stuff you didn't think of.  Most people just think there are the big things, but always forget all the other little stuff that you need to get when you're building a motor like this.  It all adds up one way or another.