Help with coil overs

[rsabboud]

Hi guys,

I currently have Tl-S sway bars and eibach pro-kit springs on oem struts. Although this setup corners much more flat than stock I would still like to see some improvement. Can anyone with knowledge/experience with coil overs help me out? Here are a few questions...

-I have heard good things about Tein. I am looking at the Basics and SS. Do you know if I would notice an improvement in handling with just the basics? Or do I need to dampening adjustments of the SS? Also, do you know how well the edfc works for controlling the dampening?

-Do you recommend any make/model in particular for our cars?

-Do you recommend pillow ball mounts? From what I can gather, they are not needed???

-I understand I would need a camber kit for the rear, can you tell me what else I need in order to install a coil over set properly?

-Finally, is an alignment needed every time the ride height is adjusted?

Thanks for your patience and time!

Ryan

[wtcii]

First off, welcome to the forum! I personally do not have coil overs, much like you I have a Pro-Kit and TL-S SB, but if you browse through the suspension sub-forum, you may find some useful information. As for you specific questions, I can't answer them but here is a link that might aid you. Click Me!

[alpha]

Hi guys,

I currently have Tl-S sway bars and eibach pro-kit springs on oem struts. Although this setup corners much more flat than stock I would still like to see some improvement. Can anyone with knowledge/experience with coil overs help me out? Here are a few questions...

-I have heard good things about Tein. I am looking at the Basics and SS. Do you know if I would notice an improvement in handling with just the basics? Or do I need to dampening adjustments of the SS? Also, do you know how well the edfc works for controlling the dampening?

-Do you recommend any make/model in particular for our cars?

-Do you recommend pillow ball mounts? From what I can gather, they are not needed???

-I understand I would need a camber kit for the rear, can you tell me what else I need in order to install a coil over set properly?

-Finally, is an alignment needed every time the ride height is adjusted?

Thanks for your patience and time!

Ryan

1. Tein can be hit and miss.  They are a decent budget coilover, at least for the Basics and SS.  The EDFC only works with the SS-P.

I used to have the SS-P and EDFC.  The EDFC works well, it controls your damping electronically.  No need to manually adjust it from the top of the shock.  The SS/SS-P damping adjustment, I believe, is only rebound.  It is a one way shock.  The Basics are only ride-height adjustable.

Will you notice a noticeable improvement? Yes, you will.  The OEM shocks have a lot of rebound.  I'm not sure how the Basics are damped, but the spring rates are the same for the Basics, SS, and SS-P, so the shock is more than likely similarly damped.

2. Make and model recommendations are greatly dependent on what you want out of your suspension.  What are you looking to do with your car?

3. Pillowball mounts make the ride a tad harsher.  Are they necessary? No.  But if you decide on the SS and you really want EDFC, then you'll need the SS-P(illowball Mount).

4.  A camber kit is necessary for being able to have adjustable camber.  Typically, folks get a rear camber kit to be able to align the car back to factory specs.  Adjustable camber is a good thing.  Depending what you plan to do with the car, you may want to play with your alignment specs.

Short answer: Yes, you will need a camber kit to get the rear tires back to factory alignment settings.

5.  An alignment is highly recommended each time you adjust the ride height.  Ride height changes affect caster, camber, and toe.  The Accord does not have adjustable caster, so you can't do anything about that.  Camber and toe change with ride height, so your numbers will be slightly off if you raise or lower your car from when you get it aligned.

So, first and foremost, What are you planning to do with the car? and How much are you willing to spend?

Keep in mind, coilovers aren't everything.  Wheels, tires, and alignment all play a factor in how your car behaves.

[timot_one]

^What he said.

[rsabboud]

Thanks Mark.

I don't plan on tracking the car in the near future; as much as I would love to, I don't have the means to make it track-ready (big brakes, oil cooler, LSD...). I do, however; like to take spirited drives and push the car.

So I guess I'm looking for something that's adjustable to the point where it's not too stiff that the interior panels will start to rattle, but stiff enough to make the car feel planted in faster driving.

After much thought in the last couple of days, I think I am going to forget about the EDFC. I've decided it would be a cool toy to have and everything, but in the end it's another part that can fail and it really not needed, as I will probably be adjusting the dampening twice per year (when I switch my summer/winter wheels).

You mentioned that the SS shocks are only adjustable for rebound, what else can be adjusted? Compression? (from my understanding of shocks, rebound is the rate at which it returns from being compressed, and compression is how much resistance it has to being compressed? no?)

So I'll be looking to spend about $1500 including a rear camber kit. In your opinion can I get something that will satisfy my needs and not crap out in a year? (I'm not set on Tein, I just threw it out there as I've heard good things about them.)

Thanks again

[alpha]

Thanks Mark.

I don't plan on tracking the car in the near future; as much as I would love to, I don't have the means to make it track-ready (big brakes, oil cooler, LSD...). I do, however; like to take spirited drives and push the car.

So I guess I'm looking for something that's adjustable to the point where it's not too stiff that the interior panels will start to rattle, but stiff enough to make the car feel planted in faster driving.

After much thought in the last couple of days, I think I am going to forget about the EDFC. I've decided it would be a cool toy to have and everything, but in the end it's another part that can fail and it really not needed, as I will probably be adjusting the dampening twice per year (when I switch my summer/winter wheels).

You mentioned that the SS shocks are only adjustable for rebound, what else can be adjusted? Compression? (from my understanding of shocks, rebound is the rate at which it returns from being compressed, and compression is how much resistance it has to being compressed? no?)

So I'll be looking to spend about $1500 including a rear camber kit. In your opinion can I get something that will satisfy my needs and not crap out in a year? (I'm not set on Tein, I just threw it out there as I've heard good things about them.)

Thanks again

Big brakes are not necessary for a track car, and unless you are ballin' out of control, I would not recommend them.  You would be more concerned about effective cooling and heat dissipation, along with reducing brake fade.  Keep in mind, the track is not light on brakes or tires.  Brake pad wear is accelerated and rotors can crack.  But brakes are a whole different discussion, so let's concentrate on your suspension questions.

There's going to be some factors that play into the stiffness of the suspension.  Spring rates play a little difference, but damping is going to be a bigger factor.

EDFC is a fun, cool little toy.  It's really not necessary though.  But boy does it make it a hell of a lot more convenient.

The SS is a one way shock.  You only have one adjustment.  I actually think it might be a compression and rebound adjustment.  I think it may adjust both at the same time.

The following types of shocks are available:

Non-adjustable: cannot adjust damping
One-way: either adjust rebound or compression, typically rebound and compression with one adjustment but it's based on shock design.
Two-way: adjust rebound and compression separately
Three-way: either low speed compression, high speed compression, and low speed rebound OR low speed rebound, high speed rebound, and low speed compression (I don't recall which is typical)
Four-way: low speed compression, high speed compression, low speed rebound, and high speed rebound

Given your budget, are you opposed to purchasing used?  How set are you on getting adjustable damping?

I'd have to look at what is available for the Accord.  The more adjustment options you add, the more expensive the coilover system will be.  Given what you've stated so far, I would either recommend non-adjustable or 1-way coilovers.

There are a number of options available.  Tein Basic, Tein SS/SS-P, D2, Function & Form, KW Variant 1, etc.  Within that list, I would prefer the KW V1, but it doesn't have adjustable damping.  It's up to you if that is important to you.  There's more, but I can't recall all of them off the top of my head.  There might a list somewhere on the forums, I'm not sure.  It may be a good idea to start a list of all the possible options, of all the coilover systems made for the Accord.

There is another option also, but I'm not sure how it'll behave.  You can piece together a coilover system.  Get some Ground Control sleeves, a nice shock, and some nice springs and you can put together your own coilover.  Only reason I say I'm not sure how it'll behave is depending on your spring rate, you'll have to find a shock that will be compliant with the springs, or you may need to have the shocks revalved to support your chosen spring rate.

[Mike]

A pretty comprehensive list is available Here

[rsabboud]

Thanks for the help guys...

Are you familiar with Koni yellows? Do you know how they would pair with the Pro kits? I've read on another forum a while ago (I don't think it was an Accord one) that they work well, but at the same time I don't know what spring rates were used. I'm skeptical of them being as productive at reducing roll compared to a proper coil over set.

For now I may need to bump the coil overs down on the priority list though... I put in a magnaflow cat back on the weekend and am not entirely happy with the look of the mufflers/tail pipes without the hfp skirts, so I think those may be my next step. I'll take some pics this evening and post them to show you. They sound pretty sweet under load but driving at 2-3000 rpm they drone a bit, I think it'll just take some time to get used to.

Ps...how do I attach photos so they show up in the thread post? When I registered, I posted links to photobucket and they weren't visible in the thread...

[CrackerTeg]

Use the IMG codes provided with each photo.

[timot_one]

If you're considering the Koni yellows, the Neuspeed Super Cup kit is a good way to get a spring/shock combo.  From what I hear, you essentially get the springs for free.

[rsabboud]

Hey guys,

So...three dealers I've checked with can't find the hfp lip kit, looks like I'm going to get coilovers first (which makes more sense now). I've decided on spending about 1g on brand new coilovers. The site I bought my intake from (raceinspired.com) has quite a few choices for that price. Another factor that came to mind is my winter driving and whether these things will rust. I've found some info on the teins and that they can rust quite easily.

Do you have any insight on which ones might be rust proof? I will sacrifice adjustability for a better quality unit that will not rust.

Thanks for the help again.

Ryan

[timot_one]

If you get the Tein Flex or Comfort Sport for the TSX, the threads are teflon coated, so the nuts do not seize like they do on the Basics and SS.  You could also abandon the idea of coil overs and get the Neuspeed Supercup kit, which is a spring/shock combo that is not height adjustable but does have adjustable damping.

[rsabboud]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to say thanks for the input. I ended up ordering the supercup kit with race springs and ingalls camber kit today. I also threw in the neuspeed short shift kit while I was at it ha.

I'll post pics once everything is in.