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What are the ECU options for the V6 accord?

AEM FIC or that magical mysterious OEM tuning sw that the one guy over on g7a claims to have.

AEM FI-C or Ultimate e-manage piggy back off another e-manage.

Running two e-manage sounds expensive.

E-Manage isn't that great of a EMS anyway.  If I had a V6, I would get an AEM FIC.

I'm going to look into it. It's going to end up on my "down the road list"

Dual e-manage is kind expensive and really pointless. I believe Peter and Sean who both have S/C power Accords are running dual e-manage. They have yet had the factory ECU detune it, but the FI-C for sure will not be detuned by our stock ECU (Paul aka NVA-AV6 told me so).

Paul is a very smart man, and over the next year or so will probably and up with  between 8 - 10k of my hard earned money.

^you and me both man..

AEM FI-C is the best option for the j series..  i can't see a good reason for running one emanage... let alone two.  

AEM FIC is the best option for Jseries applications. Paul wouldn't use it in ALL of his J-series builds and have proven to be successful in terms of gains and reliability

Would the AEM FIC work with an auto?

Yep.

Sweet. Thabks Thien for the info

Sounds like it needs to be added to my "list"

AEM FIC is in my future list of mods. Just need to find a reputable local tuner

^what kind of gains would you get from the FI/C on a stock motor?? (not talking about bolt ons).. to really reach the potential of the FI/C you might as well do some actual motor work.. headswap, port/polished, injectors, cams.. etc.  otherwise it's kind of a waste.

All of this is on the list also. I'm aware that there is minimal potential with a stock application. Although it would allow you to reach the full potential of your bolt ons

I have sucessfully installed a couple FICs now both in AT and MT vehicles. You would probably only see minor gains 10WHP or less on a stock vehicle.

That's what most chips/ECU Flashes do anyway. I would think this number would be enhanced with other upgrades such as intake and exhaust.

I have the AEM FIC running my J36 right now without any issues.

I am still looking for eaither a shop where I can rent a dyno bth that will let me run it or a crack head deal on a dyno pack.

I thought PTuning would let you rent it out. Could be wrong though.

Yeah, at $175 hr and they have to run it.......

Oh ok

Also the Apexi AFC Neo  is an option as well, but will need to be retuned every now and then.

kinda inching for more mods. lol

Has anyone tried full standalones like a Haltech or the like?

I don't like piggybacks because the ECUs in these cars are smart enough to see through whatever you're trying to do (usually fooling the MAP signal), take other inputs and not work well, or atleast not without throwing a check engine light for some reason.

I don't have experience with immobilisers, but assuming that can be bypassed, I'd rather run a Haltech over a Greddy or an AEM FIC. I will go through their documentation tonight and see what's feasible.

You guys should all post your interest over on Hondata's forum. There is a thread for it there. If they see enough interest, they may be inclined to start doing research an development.

J Swaps are becoming more and more popular.

They WILL NOT do it for the 7th gens Motorola ECU, they can not get the info they need. Now the 8th gen uses a Denso ecu so there is hope for that one. I have looked at he wiring, ect and at least for MT vehicles the 8th gen ECU could be fairly easily retrofitted in. I am also working with AEM to get the 7th gen crank sensor pattern in the Series 2 EMS.

I don't think Hondata has any motivation to work on the J series engines. If you ever noticed in the past, they only went for the 'performance-oriented' engine in every generation. First, it was the B series (getting it to work on the D wasn't their priority. Then they went with the K and ignored the R engine which was another economy oriented engine. The V6, while being quite powerful, is nowhere near the 100bhp/ltr mark and there are few takers for it compared to the K or the B.

To expand on my previous post, I went to check what the Megasquirt guys had been up to lately. I didn't like their previous boards because the Honda OBD1 solutions were simply incredible and DIS/COP ignition wasn't a big priority. With these engines, since they came with COP from the factory, Megasquirt would be a good option.

Their V3 boards seem to have more than what we need (8 sequential ignition outputs and 8 discrete ignition outputs). We only need 6 of each to get sequential, which is what I like. Wasted spark is fine but I like to have sequential fuel injection.

And the best part is that it is relatively cheap compared to some big name piggybacks.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtiii-ems-system-v357-assembled-unit-p-399.html (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtiii-ems-system-v357-assembled-unit-p-399.html)

Honestly, I feel this to be a very good option. I will be looking into this for sure.

Matt at DIYAutotune is a friend and I will talk to him about this. I will be testing one on my car this year. If it works out well, I can pester him to think about selling this in a kit form like they do with their other MSPnP ECUs which are plug-in standalones based on the Megasquirt.

I just hope the aftermarket industry sees that there is a market for a J Series tuning option that is greater than what is currently available. That's the one thing that would convince me to build a J to swap into an EK or DC2.

Paul, if you can get the Series 2 EMS to be compatible with this engine, that would be great too.

How forthcoming are they about this?

I have been waiting for 5 years now. I wish people would see that there is nothing else out there that can touch the Js power to weight ratio.......

I have zero knowledge in the ECU department but this thread has been going on in V6P and I thought you guys might like to take a look at it (if you haven't already) to see if it's feasible or worthwhile. The guy working on it has already posted some maps of early tuning, but obviously I have no clue what I'm looking at  :D

http://v6performance.net/forums/7g-performance-discussion/215581-reasonably-priced-piggyback-feeler-5.html#post2007436 (http://v6performance.net/forums/7g-performance-discussion/215581-reasonably-priced-piggyback-feeler-5.html#post2007436)

Without knowing more details about what he is connecting to and controlling I can't say yet but I am watching it as it does show promise.

I'm going to start looking for a shell.  Hopefully there will be a good tuning option by the time I'm ready to fire up the J Swap in it.

looks promising j series motors have potential

Case in point, a J36 in a 03 CLS-MT with a 80mm tb untuned. He has always used the same land sea dyno to track his mods and gains including a baseline that was right in line with factory specs. His last run put his car at 316WHP and 289WTQ. Now lets add 15% to translate to crank HP/TQ, So we have 363CHP and 332CTQ. That means that a built J can achieve 100HP per liter and the part I really like 1HP per LB of weight since a fully dressed J weighs in at 350ish lbs..........

^ :jaw:

Is the 15% transmission loss measured by putting the engine on an engine dyno?

We've had some transmissions that caused about 25% loss, though not the J series transmissions. The engine wasn't put on an engine dyno but certain dynos can measure transmission loss after the test is done and the wheels are allowed to coast on the roller.

If you account for 20% transmission loss, that figure would be even larger.

The sad thing is the lack of good tunes since there's no support for it. We once picked up about 40hp in a day's work of tuning the ECU. Admittedly this was a D15 Honda engine, but we went from 142whp to 183 whp in a matter of hours. That was a gain of 28% just with a tune. Now admittedly, that was a freak engine and the initial tune was conservative, but I'd expect atleast another 20-25 whp to be freed up with a good street tune, and atleast 30+ whp if tuned on a dyno.

15% is about standard for a MT, 25% is about standard for a AT.

That's what we thought too. It was an MT Honda tranny btw. You'd be surprised at the transmission losses on some cars. My point being that it's pointless to take transmission losses into account. Variances like stiffer pressure plates, clutch plate material, the state of the flywheel are just a few things that can increase or decrease transmission losses.

Since that day, we stopped trying to get a hypothetical hp/tq number at the engine and stuck to comparing numbers at the wheels.

Paul, wasn't that specific J36 running rich as a pig up top as well?

And the 8G ECU is reflashable...how 'easily' can this be wired and fitted? Thank God the 6MT didn't come with the VCM or we'd be in trouble...other than that?

Yes it was, about 11:1 AFR which means leaving a good 20WHP on the table.....

I looked at the wiring differences a while back and I don't remember there being any "wierd" siganls that have to be worked out, just very different connectors so two different extension harnesses (about $330 worth) would have to be purchased to make a conversion harness.