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Title: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on March 27, 2013, 04:32:43 PM I know I haven't posted in a while and have just been lurking and reading, but I'm still around and have a question. Anyways, I'm in the process of acquiring parts for my AT to 5MT swap. I already got the axles, shifter box and cables, RSX-S flywheel. I was wondering, would it be better to get the clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder and lines (soft & hard) new from Honda or would used be fine? I want to make sure that I don't have any headaches later on. Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: CrackerTeg on March 27, 2013, 05:50:34 PM That's a no brainer question dude. New.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on March 27, 2013, 07:22:30 PM Maybe I didn't ask my question the right way. I know new would be the ideal way to go, but considering the cost of the parts new, is it safe to just get those parts along with the 5MT from the donor car to save some $$?
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: ikethegreat on March 28, 2013, 07:53:56 AM That is kinda impossible to answer. Used parts are a crap shoot. You never know what you are getting. You might be safe with them or you might get screwed. That is the chance you take.
If it was me spending all this money on the conversion, I'd spend a bit extra and get new parts just for peace of mind. Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: CrackerTeg on March 28, 2013, 08:20:32 AM That is kinda impossible to answer. Used parts are a crap shoot. You never know what you are getting. You might be safe with them or you might get screwed. That is the chance you take. Moe, ike answered it in a much more eloquent way than I did but I feel got the exact same point across. You're already forking the coin out for a tranny, new clutch, flywheel, etc. Why skimp on the master and slave? You can pull the lines from the donor but I would flush the ever living piss out of them prior to running. Things I would get new if I were you are the clutch kit, master and slave cylinders, RSX flywheel. Everything else should be fine used.If it was me spending all this money on the conversion, I'd spend a bit extra and get new parts just for peace of mind. Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: timot_one on March 28, 2013, 07:47:13 PM If it were me, I would get a new EM1 ('00 Civic Si) master cylinder instead of an Accord one. Get a new Accord slave cylinder, and drop the cash for a stainless steel clutch line from someone like K-Tuned or Hybrid Racing. Trust me, those hard lines make it a bitch to install. If you need help with the clutch components, hit me up. I have had my fair share of clutch problems in the past and want to help you avoid the same issues.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on March 28, 2013, 09:39:49 PM Thanks for all the replies.
If it were me, I would get a new EM1 ('00 Civic Si) master cylinder instead of an Accord one. Get a new Accord slave cylinder, and drop the cash for a stainless steel clutch line from someone like K-Tuned or Hybrid Racing. Trust me, those hard lines make it a bitch to install. If you need help with the clutch components, hit me up. I have had my fair share of clutch problems in the past and want to help you avoid the same issues. Tim, is the EM1 master cylinder a bolt-on or will I have to do any modifications? Are these the lines you are talking about: http://k-tuned.3dcartstores.com/Stainless-Steel-Clutch-Line-Kit_p_44.html (http://k-tuned.3dcartstores.com/Stainless-Steel-Clutch-Line-Kit_p_44.html) Another question I have is when I was looking online at the diagram, I got a little confused. What exactly comes with the master cylinder assembly does it include all the fittings? What else would I need from this diagram: (http://www.hondapartsnow.com/diagrams/small/clutch-master-cylinder-466174.png) Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: timot_one on March 29, 2013, 09:07:14 AM The EM1 master cylinder is a direct bolt in for your application. From my understanding, all Honda hydraulic master cylinders have the same bolt pattern. From that diagram (assuming that you're getting the EM1 master cylinder) you would need:
5 6 7 (except the EM1 master cylinder) 10 20 21 26 27 x2 30 x2 32 34 x2 Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on March 29, 2013, 09:55:31 AM Thank you Tim for your help. I'm going to order the parts now.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: timot_one on March 29, 2013, 06:09:44 PM Call AutoFair Honda in Manchester, NH and ask for Ryan or Colin. Tell them I sent you and they will take care of you. Those guys are awesome. That's where I get all of my OEM parts from.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on April 03, 2013, 04:32:51 PM I have one more question. I was looking around the other threads and I didn't see anyone mention a half shaft (part #: 44500-SDA-A00, #18 in the diagram below). Am I going to need this also in the swap? I already have both axles.
(http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/catimgs/14sdn01_b21.png) Title: Re: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: CrackerTeg on April 03, 2013, 04:44:18 PM If it's not already bolted to the transmission, then I believe you do. I'm not sure if the spline count is different between auto and manual or what other differences there are.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 01, 2015, 04:54:26 PM Looking at my options for the clutch lines, there is oem of course, but other that that you guys talked about ktuned and hybrid racing clutch lines. I looked a bit but there is nothing on their site for k24 accord or TSX. Ktuned has a kit for k-swaps in civics but don't know if they actually fit, and HR don't have anything in their "clutch lines" section.
I already got used master, reservoir, and slave from an accord. Most lines from the donor were cut, but still could get a grab on some of those. Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on April 01, 2015, 09:36:34 PM Wow...haven't been here for a while. Got an email saying someone responded to a thread I had started..
Anyways, to answer your question, this is what I used: https://k-tuned.3dcartstores.com/Stainless-Steel-Clutch-Line-Kit_p_44.html Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: timot_one on April 01, 2015, 09:46:15 PM The k tuned clutch line works just fine. I've had mine for at least 6-7 years now. If you can get the longer RHD swap line, do that instead. A little extra length is nice. Also, get an EM1 master cylinder. The Accord one is garbage. I blew like 7 of them.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 01, 2015, 10:24:19 PM Wow...haven't been here for a while. Got an email saying someone responded to a thread I had started.. Anyways, to answer your question, this is what I used: https://k-tuned.3dcartstores.com/Stainless-Steel-Clutch-Line-Kit_p_44.html You went thru with the conversion ? did you do it yourself ? The k tuned clutch line works just fine. I've had mine for at least 6-7 years now. If you can get the longer RHD swap line, do that instead. A little extra length is nice. Also, get an EM1 master cylinder. The Accord one is garbage. I blew like 7 of them. Is the standard line so tight in length that it makes it worth buying the extended version. I might look into the used market, some people buy parts for kswaps and don't do it. So if I find a good price on a standard one, is it fine ? Otherwise if I'll buy new, I'll get the longer one for sure, I can probably tuck the excess line. For the CMC, I bought it for cheap from a part out car, was working, no sign of leaks on it, so I will use it for now and just replace it with a EM1 CMC when it will fail. I know they got issues on the CMC with the triangle plate. Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: timot_one on April 01, 2015, 10:33:41 PM If I had to buy another one, I would get the longer line. It just makes routing it easier.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 01, 2015, 10:41:09 PM Allright ! Using new oem lines would have cost me more than that so I will buy a set of RHD clutch line if I can't find one local.
what did you use to secure the line along the way ? zip ties ? Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on April 01, 2015, 11:07:10 PM You went thru with the conversion ? did you do it yourself ? Yeah, the car runs and drives, but the wiring isn't finished. A friend of a friend helped me out with the swap but screwed me over. I hope to get back on track and take it to a shop to finish it this year. I haven't rushed to finish it since the car hasn't been a daily for about a year and a half and life got in the way. Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 01, 2015, 11:11:51 PM I'd appreciate if you could take pictures of what you did to make the master cylinder fit, and relocate the harness that normally goes thru.
If you got advises from experience too. stuff that you forgot or was not expected Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 02, 2015, 10:02:35 AM Ordered a new Ktuned RHD clutch line afterall, there is not much of these out there and they were not cheap enough to be worth buying the short one.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: timot_one on April 02, 2015, 10:23:13 AM Good call. Usually if you call K-Tuned and talk to Mike he will cut you a deal. Either that or maybe he just gives me deals on stuff.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 02, 2015, 10:45:40 AM You forgot again that i'm in canada ;)
I checked on a local dealer and he can have it for 111$ CAD with taxes and all (that's 88$ USD) Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: timot_one on April 02, 2015, 12:12:15 PM K-Tuned is based in Ontario.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 02, 2015, 12:18:55 PM Really ! :O
Damn XD Too late for now I guess XD Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on April 02, 2015, 10:08:32 PM I'd appreciate if you could take pictures of what you did to make the master cylinder fit, and relocate the harness that normally goes thru. If you got advises from experience too. stuff that you forgot or was not expected I'll see if I can get some pictures tomorrow. One thing that no one mentions is that the hubs need to be changed. It's easier to just get complete spindles from a manual car. Manual axles are thicker than auto axles. Another thing is that you don't really need to replace the brake pedal, just cut it to the size you need. That will save you a ton of work. Lastly, at least for me, I haven't figured out the wiring 100% that's why I want to take it to an experienced shop to finish that part. My car thinks it's in park all the time, speedometer and odometer don't work, and it only revs to 5K RPM. Make sure you know what to do with the wiring before you start it will save you lots of time and headaches. Maybe someone here that has experience with wiring can chime in and help us both out. One piece of advice that I do tell anyone who asks about the swap is not to do it save yourself the headache sell yours and get a manual car. You'll most likely spend WAY less money that way. Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 02, 2015, 11:27:33 PM Didn't know about the hub ! good thing to know. I might have complete spindles available actually.
I already bought the brake pedal so I'll put it on there About your issue with the ecu thing, just use a Ktuner ecu, you'll be able to run the manual tranny without issue. don't know why the speedo and odo does not work tho. About the last advice, I have been told the same many times, but still want to go thru. I got almost all parts needed. I started a parts list of what I have / need. It's not 100% complete yet but working on it. http://elitecm.net/forums/index.php?topic=5560.0 (http://elitecm.net/forums/index.php?topic=5560.0) Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 03, 2015, 12:16:39 AM about the speedo and odo, it's the VSS signal that the AT ecu can't figure out
Actually checking with my Ktuner tuner if the Ktuner AT ecu can read that signal correctly I know this for a fact how the speed is read through your speedo. VSS reads the third gear rotating in your transmission. It then sends this signal to the ECU which then interprets that signal to a variable output in the cluster. When I changed over from AT, I needed to replace all of these in order to get the new correct signal. Why this won't work for the TSX6MT in the Accord reading the correct speed. - The final drive is different (and for that matter, the 3rd gear spline) - It is not viable to replace the Accord ECU with a TSX ECU - The clusters are not interchangeable If you could do all of the above, then you could get the correct speed. HOWEVER, which is something I'm trying to do when I swap to the TSX6MT. You can get a TSX VSS which then routs a signal into your Kpro. Kpro will interpret the correct speed. From there, splice the output wire of the VSS signal into the cluster and you can do all of this without purchasing the Yellowjacket Modifry to do so. I know this will work because my Kpro reads the correct signal while my AT ECU reads the incorrect signal. The rest is just splicing the wires into your cluster (or in my soon to be case, an Autometer Speedo!) <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8-)" title="Cool" /> Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 03, 2015, 03:56:44 PM Just checked with my Tuner. A auto Ktuner ecu can run a manual transmission and will read any VSS. it has an option to select 1 of the 2 types of vss used so that it can interpret it correctly the sensor reading.
I got to say, Ktuner is pretty nice ! Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on April 03, 2015, 11:08:09 PM Just checked with my Tuner. A auto Ktuner ecu can run a manual transmission and will read any VSS. it has an option to select 1 of the 2 types of vss used so that it can interpret it correctly the sensor reading. I got to say, Ktuner is pretty nice ! That is good to know, I guess I'm going to be using KTuner. I haven't been able to go to my car to verify, but I believe that on the auto tranny the VSS sensor is on the rear and the manual its on the front. So your cable is going to be a little short and you're not going to have a plug for the reverse lights. Also, you're going to have a bunch of plugs and wires just hanging there. I have a brand new manual engine harness waiting to be swapped in but I don't know if I'm going to have to change out the dash harness as well. I don't really have a game plan for that. What do you plan to do about your wiring? Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 05, 2015, 08:40:49 PM I plan on using the auto harness and doing custom for what is remaining, it seems like a real pain to swap the whole harness.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: timot_one on April 05, 2015, 09:47:53 PM Harness swap is actually fairly easy. You can re-use the auto harness, but you'll have to repurpose some of the wires for your VSS and then you'll have a bunch of unused wires from the AT shift solenoids.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 05, 2015, 10:19:47 PM Do i need to swap the part inside the car, or only the part "after" the connectors in the engine bay that goes to the engine
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: timot_one on April 06, 2015, 09:02:50 AM Swap both. It's actually not as hard as you would think.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 06, 2015, 10:28:48 AM i'll check on that, thanks
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 09, 2015, 09:17:56 PM BTW moe, you still haven't posted pictures
I'd really appreciate to see the brackets for the CMC and clutch pedal Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on April 10, 2015, 08:14:42 PM Sorry about that....I completely forgot. Been very busy at work. Tomorrow I'll get you those pics since it's dark out now.
Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 10, 2015, 09:55:10 PM Hopefully you won't forget about it again :laugh:
Thanks man Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Moe on April 11, 2015, 10:47:02 AM Almost everything used was OEM. Sorry for the bad pics but these are the best I could get without taking things apart. Later today if I get a chance, I'll get better shots.
Here are two shots of the pedal bracket: (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/11/28b8804f4cea9e9ab68a54adc4d1b16c.jpg) (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/11/f499e30d62905b506deffdc2f88e5a65.jpg) One of the reservoir under the hood: (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/11/a2d99d9deab23474984713456ce5502b.jpg) Title: Re: 5MT Swap Parts....New or used? Post by: Pascal on April 11, 2015, 11:05:48 AM OKay so on the inside part, the clutch pedal assembly sits directly on the firewall. I know it is really hard to see there, but i'd like to see this spot but on the other side of the firewall, to see if there was something done there. Also where the upper part of the clutch pedal assembly is bolted (this one might not be posssible to take a picture)
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