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At least what I have observed-

Syn oil seems to thin out alot more that conventional with heat. A example of this was with Kschwiggy's car, he has a AEM oil pressure gauge and a built J35. With Mobil 1 5W20 at full operating temp at Idle he was only getting 7psi of oil pressure, now the same engine with Castrol 10W-30 again at full temp at idle was getting 15-17PSI. The factory spec for these engines is 10PSI minimum although I like the 15+ PSI much better, now this lack of pressure means that oil is not providing great protection for the bearings, but more imortantly as in Kevin's case, was not producing a good oil layer on the cylinder walls, this oil is squirted on by small jets on the ends of the connecting rods, without sufficent pressure a incomplete layer of oil will be put on the sleeves and they will eventually wear out (as was seen in Kevin's engine when we swapped his heads). Now before everyone points out the weight difference in the oil, 5W-20 Castrol was also put into this engine and got to 10-12PSI, but again I prefer the higher pressure.

Great information Paul so from what I read here you reccomend running conventional 10W-30 in J series motors?

From the informal test I have done, yes, I would rather lose 1-2WHP and 1-2MPG and have longevity in my engine.......

so paul, right now im using syn mobil 5w20 and im in Las Vegas, temp reaches above 100, should i switch to 5w30 mobil syn? and should i stick with mobil one or get a different brand like castrol?

Do you know anything about the K Series? I have been running either Mobil 1 5w-20 or 5w-30 since I got the car.

Once Blinx gets all his gauges re-installed I can run the same test with his car.

That's your call, I would be using a conventional 10-30 if it was me. Synthetic oil historically has had temperature thinning issues all the way back to WWII when Germany first tried using it in thier fighter aircraft engines.

would it make a big difference if i use 5w30 instead 5w20, i just want more protection.

Not much....

now I've been using 10W 30 (castrol or Mobil 1) and at idle it sits with almost 20psi, even after running for a while.  cruising i see about 40-60 psi... and acceleration is never anything short of 80psi

so i guess i should switch from 0w-30 amsoil synthetic
so except for Dyno oil, what else can i use. my car is almost at 80k



Paul. is it fair to compare oil pressure with different specs oils? 5w20 and 10w30? i mean as i would think, it would be fair to compare synthetic 5w20 to conventional 5w20?
from that i can see that you recommend using higher viscosity oils, but it doesn t mean you can use synthetic. or where is my though wrong,

would any of effects of using synthetic show up on oil analysis? i would think if it wears our cylinder walls it would show up as higher number of some kinda metal in analysis

i think what paul is saying... for the purposes of oil PSI, is that comparing dino and syn oils of the same specs (ie 5w20), the synth oil will thin out quicker and yield less lubrication over longer operating times.  using a higher spec (ie 10w30) synth oil would remedy this problem though.... right now I'm running mobil 1 10w30 and the oil remains at higher psi just fine.

so if i run for example 10W30 synthetic, it will be fine?

?? Man this is interesting. Let me know what I should run also for my new v6.

Also I read on k20a that the K-serial have really hight oil pressure. I am not sure if that is true or not.

I'm running an oil pressure gauge right now.  Let me know how you want me to run the tests and I'd be glad to share the results with you.

Pretty much we are looking for the OP at idle with the car haven been driven fairly hard and fully at temp.

I had that feeling running synthetic in the J series was pointless.

Okay.  I can do that for ya.  Right now I'm running M1 5W30.  I can give you oil pressure and temperature if you want.  Is there any temperature range you want?  What other oil would you like me to recommend me trying at the next oil change?

We are looking for the engine to be at 200+D and driven for a while at that temp. Next I would do a conventional (like Castrol GTX) 5W30, or Mobil1 10W30

Paul. what should i get for fall/winter times. as far as grade of oil 5w30 or 10w30 or stay with 0w30

As Paul eluded too, I Ran synthetic oil, 5W20 for the duration of my cars 78k life, and it essentially wore the hatches completely off the cylinder walls.   I may be the worst case of this happening

interesting. how about redline 5w30? It is categorized in group 4.

Here the link
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/ ... tition.jpg (http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/saaber1/sirfacecompetition.jpg)
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/ ... tscopy.jpg (http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/saaber1/depositscopy.jpg)

HEre what my friend discussed about

7:23:50 PM crew: group I, II, III, IV, V
7:23:57 PM crew: basicall 1 & 2 are dino
7:24:02 PM crew: III is synth derived from dino
7:24:11 PM Kenneth Pay: oo
7:24:12 PM crew: and that's most of the shit you find out there (including mobil 1)
7:24:42 PM crew: IV is PAO, true synth but non polar (doesn't clean well, just lubricates well but also doesn't create as nice of films on the metal surface)
7:24:49 PM crew: then there's V, which are ester based oils
7:25:17 PM crew: V has the highest temp ratings, most shear stable, best flow etc, just expensive
7:25:44 PM crew: then there are different types of esters . . . . redline uses polyol esters (some of the best), others use vegetable esters (so-so), others use diesters
7:26:03 PM crew: you can't have a 100% ester oil, since you need a carrier oil for the additives
7:26:27 PM crew: so usually you have ester oils also blended with a bit of group IV PAO so you can have the soluable additives
7:26:41 PM crew: anyways esters are the shit

Kevin and Misha, I got rid of your posts because they cluttered up the thread with useless bullshit. If you guys want to bitch at each other over driving habits or whatever, do it somewhere else instead of this thread. Thanks.

Pics of your cylinder walls will be up latter today......

well last month, i switch to mobil 1 syn 5w30 from 5w20 mobil 1 syn, and it feels so much smoother even in hot temp

Guys does comparing oil pressure on a "built" V-6 to a stock one have any merit? To what extent was the build? Would the build require a heavier oil?

^ No it does not matter since we are talking about using the same engine and gauge , I am only pointing out how the pressure changes for different oils under the same conditions......

I don't know if you will be able to see it in the pics, but you can see the cross hatch in the tops of the cylinders which is worn away at the bottoms, I mesured a almost .5mm (That's alot when talking about cylinders) difference from the top to the bottm and saw sighns of oil control issues developing with a couple of the cylinders. The lines running witht eh piston movement are from lack of oil on the cylinders allowing the piston skirt to scrape the cylinder walls.

(http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa22/csmalser/KevinNY/KevinNY001.jpg)
(http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa22/csmalser/KevinNY/KevinNY002.jpg)

damn. i ran mobil 1 syn 5w-20 in my motor for the last oil change i did. the car did run smoother but i heard some type of knocking sound when you dont accelerate enough coming off the clutch. i forgot whats its called but i heard it has something to do with the valves. anyways i never got that sound before with conventional oil. also during the summer i went to check the oil before a long trip and was surprised to see that i had almost no oil on the dipstick.

i dont know anything about oils and such but i found an interesting article on oil. i only read half the page but its very interesting to know
http://www.ultimatesyntheticoil.com/articles/ford5w20.htm

"The main reason 5W-20 was specified for your engine is to increase the CAFE reported to the Federal Government. CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) is the combined average fuel economy of all of a vehicle manufacturers product line."

"A common thought of consumers and mechanics, voiced repeatedly in popular online Ford and Honda forums and user groups, is that Honda and Ford "know what they are doing" and have "specified 20-weight oils for a reason".  Then they assume the reason is good, typically without questioning what that "reason" actually is.  (Not the best idea in today's world of slimy business ethics.)"

- http://www.ultimatesyntheticoil.com/art ... rd5w20.htm (http://www.ultimatesyntheticoil.com/articles/ford5w20.htm)

Funny, those links say exactly what I have been saying for quite a while now.......

so paul should i run 5w-30 or 10w 30?

Jesus my pistons were effed up, as are the cylinder walls.

Yeah, you were buring some raw oil and it was creating thick deposits on the pistons.....

damn guess i'm switching to 5w-20 conventional now got about 18k on the car now, i guess it wouldn't make a difference that much switching from syn 5w-20 to conventional 5w-20 would it or better off sticking to the good ol 10w-30 like all my other Honda & Acura cars...

Good ol 10w-30, 5w-20 is wayy to thin, even Honda engineers hate it, but had to put it on to meet cafe standards for ULEV3

I'm not knocking on you, but who in honda do you know that is credible to tell you this??? I'm just curious.

FYI, I tried M1 5w-30 and seemed like there is more piston slap on startup.

Add a oil pressure gauge and watch your oil pressure during hot idle, it will scare the shiz out of you.......

thats what im planning on...

well i guess ill be getting new oil soon. i guess its ether 5W-30 or 10w30, i guess synthetic one will be fine with those numbers?  sorry for reasking same questions

Reading PWNS you Misha.

well got penzoil platinum syntetic and oil filter, gona do oil change soon, car almost has 92k on it

I'm glad you listened to the advice you asked for.  :D

I just made the change back to 5w30 dino oil. At least for the J30, I buy that dino>synthetic.

i made the switch back to dyno oil after the first synthetic oil change lol. my car has 102km on it. im running 5w-20 but going to put 10w-30 for the summer months and 5w-30 in the winter months. i dont think it matters what oil i use as long as i change it every 5km. so far my car doesnt burn any oil that ive noticed.

okay so I ran a oil pressure test this morning after I got my hands on a mechanical gauge. old oil was 1000+ miles of M1 5W30 and at operating temp was getting 11-13 psi idle. at 3K RPM I was getting 75-78 psi right in the range of honda specs, well a little over. new oil was 5W20 M1, 9-11 psi idle and 68-72 at 3K rpm all at operating temp. so there, someone can make an analysis off of that. paul, care to chime in?

All I know is that I don't even own an Accord anymore and I still switched to 10W30 based on Paul's advice.  Oh yeah, I run it in the Ody's J35 too just to be safe.