Title: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: HEcreated487 on October 01, 2012, 09:33:22 PM Bought a set of USED AMRs with approximately 10K miles on them. Have had them installed since 23 Sept. 2012. Spring rates are 10K front / 8K rear, manufactured by HyperCo.
From initial install (and over this past week), I noticed that the ride quality has been fairly stiff and bouncy (not "floating-boat, I-just-cut-my-cut-my-OEM-springs" bouncy, but more like "sudden, jolty ride" bouncy. I can definitely feel every single deviation in the road (even the smallest of road imperfections), a shortened frequency of shock oscillation and minimal movement of the shock piston. I am aware that it is most likely due to the monotube shock design and operation, and slightly from stiffer springs (just uninstalled Tein Basics from a CL9 with spring rates 9K front / 6K rear, twin-tube shock absorber). So I contacted AMR to reconfirm the preload settings. Re-adjusted the the preload as recommended by AMR (i.e. "2.5 full rotations once [the collar/top hat] puts pressure on the spring") on 28 Sept. 2012. Set my dampening settings (from full soft) to five (5) clicks front / one (1) click rear. Same settings as of 01 Oct. 2012. To clarify, I had the originally adjusted the preload settings while off the car (before install) and definitely added waaaaaaaay too much preload beyond AMR's recommendation. When I did the re-adjustment, I had everything already installed on the car. There is the possibility that I still have too much preload, although I am unsure of this. Please note that I have done my research beforehand and read the following links, along with a bunch of other info: http://www.tein.co.jp/e/special/ni_toryu/index.html (http://www.tein.co.jp/e/special/ni_toryu/index.html) http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/heeltoe-automotive/49186-tein-ht-spec-megan-h-r-what-coilovers-should-you-get.html (http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/heeltoe-automotive/49186-tein-ht-spec-megan-h-r-what-coilovers-should-you-get.html) http://www.v6performance.net/forums/6th-generation-honda-accord-1998-2002/204445-my-unbiased-review-amr-engineering-their-coilovers.html (http://www.v6performance.net/forums/6th-generation-honda-accord-1998-2002/204445-my-unbiased-review-amr-engineering-their-coilovers.html) http://www.v6performance.net/forums/7g-wheels-tires-suspension-discussion/206983-amr-coilovers-short-review.html (http://www.v6performance.net/forums/7g-wheels-tires-suspension-discussion/206983-amr-coilovers-short-review.html) http://www.v6performance.net/forums/7th-generation-honda-accord-2003-2007/210614-whats-your-favorite-coilovers.html (http://www.v6performance.net/forums/7th-generation-honda-accord-2003-2007/210614-whats-your-favorite-coilovers.html) Key Points:
Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: timot_one on October 14, 2012, 12:42:36 AM I don't know much about suspension tuning, or the set up you have. Do they have adjustable damping?
Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: HEcreated487 on October 14, 2012, 01:26:13 AM Yes, they have 8 clicks of dampening. I've done quite a few adjustments to the dampening to find settings that provide a reasonable ride comfort. No such luck, unfortunately. I have an idea on what direction I want to test. Will write about soon.
Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: timot_one on October 14, 2012, 01:43:04 AM I've heard that if you stiffen up the damping, it will help improve the ride.
Title: Re: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: alpha on October 14, 2012, 12:14:17 PM How many damping adjustments do you have? One, two, or three?
Do you know details of the shock valving? Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: HEcreated487 on October 14, 2012, 06:04:50 PM Just one dampening adjustment for rebound only, Mark. Dampening knob at the top of the shock. Not sure on the details on the internals (valve size, factory gas chamber pressure, etc.) I could definitely ask. What info were you thinking?
Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: HEcreated487 on October 15, 2012, 02:18:33 PM More adjustments made.
On Saturday, I decided to set both the front and rear to full stiff. The ride was still "jolty", but not unbearable. In comparison to the previous settings (5 clicks front, 3 clicks rear), this proved to be equal or a little better in ride quality (based on my scientifically proven subjective opinion. :D... Talk about oxymoron). From this, I have decided that no matter what settings the shocks are set to, the difference in ride is only marginally different. My conclusion is that I have to change springs. In comparing other suspension set ups known for fairly comfortable ride quality, I made the following table:
I plan to order some 6K replacemnet springs (HyperCo or Swift) for the rear and possibly moving the current 8K rear springs to the front. I also plan to dig up some old dynamics textbooks to further research into spring rates, compression, rebound, dampening, oscillation, frequency, period, etc. Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: alpha on October 15, 2012, 04:51:49 PM Just one dampening adjustment for rebound only, Mark. Dampening knob at the top of the shock. Not sure on the details on the internals (valve size, factory gas chamber pressure, etc.) I could definitely ask. What info were you thinking? Dang.. so you don't really have much to play with in terms of compression settings.Honestly, they probably won't tell you the details of the shock design. I was mostly interested in hearing if they published compression/rebound valving numbers. Comparing spring rates with other manufacturers is moot, as the way the shock is designed could make the primary difference; but trying different springs may still help, as there is the possibility that the spring is too stiff for the shock and not allowing the shock to compress. It could be an issue of the ratio between compression force and spring rate. I would also be concerned if the compression valving of the shock is too stiff. You may not have enough unsprung weight to compress the shock. Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: HEcreated487 on October 15, 2012, 05:03:13 PM Thx Mark. Yeah, the unsprung weight could be an issue. Input from other sources have stated that the rear of the vehicle may be too light for that combination of spring rate and the monotube damper with large valve. I figured revalving is an option, but I am attempting to be cost effective in increasing the ride quality. If there is a way to adjust it, that would be great... but if not, I'd be SOL. Worst case: I sell and get something different. :)
By the way, when I dissassembled the entire assembly prior to the initial installation, there was another knob/port at the base of the shock. I hadn't adjusted anything on that, but figured that may be the port for the gas chamber?? Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: alpha on October 15, 2012, 05:15:07 PM Thx Mark. Yeah, the unsprung weight could be an issue. Input from other sources have stated that the rear of the vehicle may be too light for that combination of spring rate and the monotube damper with large valve. I figured revalving is an option, but I am attempting to be cost effective in increasing the ride quality. If there is a way to adjust it, that would be great... but if not, I'd be SOL. Worst case: I sell and get something different. :) Re-valving is always an option, but unless you are dead set on having these be your coilovers, then I'm not sure the cost will be worth it.By the way, when I dissassembled the entire assembly prior to the initial installation, there was another knob/port at the base of the shock. I hadn't adjusted anything on that, but figured that may be the port for the gas chamber?? Springs are cheap enough to give a lower spring rate a try; but as I previously stated, if the compression valving is too stiff, then softer springs may make a marginal difference. Just something to be prepared for; and if that is the case, then you always have to option of finding a different set of coilovers. If softer springs fixes it, then great. As for the bottom knob, not sure. AMR's website doesn't indicate anything other than rebound adjustment, so I would contact them before making any adjustments to that knob. Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: HEcreated487 on October 15, 2012, 05:22:55 PM I think I would be "set" on these coils because of the company's history of not having a failure in.... well, never. That's what they claim anyway. Haven't read anything to show otherwise.
Agree that purchasing replacement springs is a relatively inexpensive route compared to revalving. If anything, I'm probably leaning towards the GC/Koni setup. Decent OTS spring rates and excellent warranty. Can't really beat that. Reading up a little on "over dampening" in damped harmonic oscillators / systems. Hopefully more research can assist in my quest for comfort. ;D Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: HEcreated487 on November 26, 2012, 07:28:10 PM Was originally planning to purchase replacement springs with a 12K front / 7K rear spring rate setup (i.e. identical to the JIC Magic FLT-TAR coilovers, Model #UC1FLTA), but am considering a 14K front / 4k rear spring rate setup for a few reasons.
1) Occassionally I "knock" my front UCA on my front shock tower/wheel well at my current ride height. I am hoping the increase spring rate will effectively eliminate this occurrence, especially if I decide to go lower ??? 2) As mentioned previously, the rear spring rate dictates much of the ride quality. I confirmed with AMR that the dampers should have no issues, nor require revalving, with a spring rate change of +/- 4K. I am hoping this provides an increase in ride comfort. I am a little hesitant with such a soft spring rate, but it is worth a shot for the price I am looking at. 3) I found some really good deals on the 14K / 4K spring rates mentioned above, so am tempted to at least try them out. I'll most likely try the rear pair of springs for the time being. Your insight would be appreciated. Thanks! Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: timot_one on November 26, 2012, 10:38:37 PM Was originally planning to purchase replacement springs with a 12K front / 7K rear spring rate setup (i.e. identical to the JIC Magic FLT-TAR coilovers, Model #UC1FLTA), but am considering a 14K front / 4k rear spring rate setup for a few reasons. 1) Occassionally I "knock" my front UCA on my front shock tower/wheel well at my current ride height. I am hoping the increase spring rate will effectively eliminate this occurrence, especially if I decide to go lower ??? 2) As mentioned previously, the rear spring rate dictates much of the ride quality. I confirmed with AMR that the dampers should have no issues, nor require revalving, with a spring rate change of +/- 4K. I am hoping this provides an increase in ride comfort. I am a little hesitant with such a soft spring rate, but it is worth a shot for the price I am looking at. 3) I found some really good deals on the 14K / 4K spring rates mentioned above, so am tempted to at least try them out. I'll most likely try the rear pair of springs for the time being. Your insight would be appreciated. Thanks! Do you have the Ingalls front camber kit? Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: HEcreated487 on November 26, 2012, 11:16:29 PM Junk2 UCA, Tim. ;D
Title: Re: Improvement in Ride Quality | AMRs Post by: timot_one on November 26, 2012, 11:32:25 PM Okay. I know the Ingalls ones are a lot taller and have a tendency to hit even at normal ride heights. I'm about to swap mine out to Hard Race UCA's. Sucks to hear the Skunk2's are well....
.....junk. :trololol: |