EliteCM.net

Yeah.. Way costly. like I said before I really don't want to drop 6k into my car. I would love to swap to Mt but damn 3k... LoL I think I'll just do Cams and all bolt on with a tunes and be done with it. I need to ask cham how much is it to kpro when I provide the ecu. I am trying to get a EP3 ecu or a base rsx.

So basically here is my build idea

BC stage 2 cams =500
BC springs 250  OR  BC dual spring =325
BC TI retainers =200
kpro + harness 1350 OR AEM FIC + harness =500
Tuning 185/hr guessing 3hr tops to tune everything = 555
Labor for putting Cambs 100/hr maybe 6hr? =600

this is like maybe... 180-200whp with all bolt on
Labor and tuning is a killer...

So about 2200~3000 at most

man head swap looking good right now..
RSX or TSX head 600~700
TSX piston with rods and rings 200
rsx-s oil pump 150
timing chain 100
head gasket 120
kpro + harness 1350
labor to put it all in ?? 1500 bucks?
Tuning 185/hr umm 5hrs? 925

this is make 250whp for sure will all bolt on

~5000 maybe Labor and tuning is a killer here also...

3rd opinion would be supercharger either Jackson Racing or Craftwerk

Used JR 1500-2000
RDX injecor with pig tails 140
Hondata kpro 1350
adaptor plate 120
Tuning 925?

Labor I can have my auto mac friends help me put it in.

 I am also missing other stuff like injectors, wide band o2 and some other stuff, am can't recall from the top of my head. Anyways I'll see how much I can make this summer and go from there.

Skip how much are you spending for your build?

ummm,.. 6k for a k20/k24 frank is about right after all is said and done, and yea you are missing a lot of the parts you'll need in that list and as for kpro idk if the ep3 one can be kproed think they're  all rsx ecus, but im no kpro guru so someone else will give a better answer,..

as for stg.2 cams idk if those are too aggressive for a4 pistons, prolly better to just a2 swap and go from there but $$$ so yea,.. kpro and bolt ons will prolly get you to 180-190whp I only say this because abailey4 dynoed around 145whp AT without tuning, sooo,.. yea, but don't discourage im just speculating

^ Yeah that was with all standard bolt on's, no Kpro, cold winter day and a dyno jet.

yeah I know I am missing a lot of stuff. I just went from the top of my head. I have the complete list saved from k20a.org

As for the dyno it was only 145 with I/H/E correct? no pullies, tsx im, hondata gasket?

As for the cams I got word back from BC they said its about 25+ hp gain and should work with the k24a4 and k20a3 since they only have 2 lobe vtec. So being close to 180-190whp should be within range. But I really need to see if I can cut a deal with them on labor because I am going to have the place that does the tuning do the installation also. I wish I had to the knowledge to do my own cam installation

IDK if Levi is on this forum but Ryann just texted me and told me he made 190whp with all bolt-ons and kpro. But as for 25+ hp from Cams with kpro definately yes but idk about any other EMS. Id go with kpro since your looking to do internal work and thats gonna be your biggest gain, as for Derricks ride hes got the same setup Im pushing so pretty much everybolt on possible minus Hondata IMG and Ingalls Tq. Dampener. Well atleast all the common stuff and hes AT like Levi so that should give you a base estimate.

with the Kpro you can advance your cams...my ems will be aem and the tuner said all he can do is retard the cams with the F/IC

BC told me the same thing they said its about 25+ hp gain

the install will be done by skippy and a friend of his(acura/honda certified technicians)

tunning will be done by another shop in orlando

^Yea! Thats one of the big reasons I pulled away from a NA build, I already had the FIC and not having the ability to run kpro conventionally unless I switch things around with my car is just maddening... So the FIC shall stay, BTW knocturnal how long have the cams been in planning? I remember back on Gen7.1 you had this planned but thought you might have given up on it

The dyno was with CAI, headers, dual exhaust, tsx IM, UR pullies, grounding kit and no hondata gasket. However my 2.5" exhaust piping may have loss me a couple horses.

Blinx I don't know if you're talking about the same Ryann from Virginia that I'm thinking of, but Timmy tells me he has a J30...so no Kpro there.

Just for comparison purposes, my car with all available bolt-ons made 153whp and 154tq on a 94 degree day without Kpro.  That's the difference between an AT and a 6MT.

Skippy just wanted to clarify that I did texted him that if I recall correctly in the G7A Classic, I said to him that Levi from NECM made 190 whp on Kpro with all Bolt-ons with his AT.  correct me if I'm wrong about his dyno results.

Yea! Ive always been skeptical to how much hp these boltons are making but, apparently its not a waste! Thats exciting to see! Hey Skip, with the Okada Projects are there any huge differences with tehm? I asked a question on G7A and we all know that site is a bit amateur for perfomance knowledge. But yea looking into these later,.. after that tho? Tuning?

The Okada's is one other thing Levi had that we dont that I forgot about when he did his dyno.

190whp on an auto sounds really good. anyways are u all doing dyno jets or mustang dyno?

Mine was a dyno jet if I remember correct.  I'll check the sheet sometime between tonight and tomorrow.

hey BliINx197  i aquired all the the parts but now i am waiting for the summer for the big install and tune...i was busy with design this semester and i was Pledging Alpho Rho Chi so i didnt have no me time

i cant give up on this project at all

i bought all of the parts $500 for my NA project from k24red  
BC stage 2 cams
BC dual spring
BC TI retainers
BC valve spring seats

F/IC-8 cost me $575 and the PNP harness was $229

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj188/knocturnal84/BrianCrower%20%20Upgrade/DSCN1722.jpg)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj188/knocturnal84/BrianCrower%20%20Upgrade/DSCN1723.jpg)

Very nice! Yea I got it when it was still the FIC 6, only paid $350 and $220 for the harness but yea are you at FSU? My ex used to go there and I must say I like the campus minus the parking! And the broads wasnt bad either but,... I had to be sneaky about eye fuckin back then! But congrats keep us posted! I wanna see what these cams can do! later

That's unlikely.  I have Levi's old KPro and whoever tuned it for him stole his money.  That shit was running rich as hell at idle and was an awful tune.  190 whp is a VERY optimistic expectation from a K24A4 AT with bolt ons and KPro.

I thought that too but I didn't wanna hate on ATs when I had no info,... although hopefully cams will be fully optimized with kpro,... honestly I would love to see someone go nuts and build a frank using the toda vtec killers!

those things make the car idle like a v8(sexy) but when you rev that thing it is too loud for my taste

The VTEC killers are only good for top end performance.  Not that great for a streetable daily driver.  I think they sound awesome as hell, but not very practical.

so I got a qoute from the place that will be doing it 555 for kpro full map tuning flat rate. 750 for installing the cams flat rate.

does that sound about right? They have to "drop" the motor so iono.

i know they are legit since I seen there cars in action and I talked to the boss at an auto meet last time and he seems to know what he is doing. So 750+555 from the same place? does that sound about right?

Dude do you want to sell me ur cams n stuff. LOL 500 bucks is such such a swt deal.

Im paying $550 for a full days tuning of FI and Ptuning Im told is the shit! As for $750 for cams thats kind of steep, or maybe Im just spoiled by having a cheaper instaler IDK Id ask around to be honest! See what other people are paying on other forms maybe?

i was reading on another forum. some guy made 230whp with bolt ons, and skunk2 stage 2 cams and kpro... on a k24a4

$555 for a tune sounds about right to me.  $750 for a cam install seems a bit high though.  I'm not sure why they have to "drop" the motor (whatever they mean by that) just to install cams.  That part makes me severly question how "legit" they really are.

hey if your close to Florida you can talk to skippy about the installation
here is a DIY i founf on k-series.com for cam removal and installation(dont need to pull the engine)

http://www.k-series.com/tech_document.php?id=39 (http://www.k-series.com/tech_document.php?id=39)

Thanks for the link but I feel must safer if the shop did it. I live in the west coast lol.

does anyone know the CC on the accord injectors? Would it be enough for the new cams set up?

Umm,.. its from 280-290cc. Im pretty sure its 280 tho

Must have been a borderline dangerous tune...that's frank territory.  I'm fairly confident there was something else in the mix we're not hearing about....like race fuel, ITB's, nitrous, or a really forgiving dyno.  The head would have to be ported and polished because it loses top end so much and that's where stage II's wake up and make power...

Also, Aznboy isn't in my area, he's on the west coast.  $750 for a cam set install is a bit pricey...and there's no need to "drop" the motor...all components are readily accessible from up on top.

^+1 from everyone else's dyno experiences, u sure it wasnt around 230 crank hp. That I could actually believe

Thanks for all the feedback guys. unfortunately I just got screwed out of a summer job. so this project will be put on hold for now, but I will keep on researching. I think I would like to add some rdx injectors into the equation also.

Why don't you just go find another job for the summer?  That's what I would do if I wanted to work and make some money.  RDX injectors are a great fuel system upgrade, but you may want to make sure it's necessary before you blow the cash on them.  I'm going to repeat advice that Skippy has given to plenty of people (myself included), figure out what kind of build you want and what your power goals are.  Then get the parts you need for that specific build.  You've been kinda wishy washy about what you want to do and haven't committed to anything yet.  Make a commitment first, then buy parts.

yeah thanks tim. I applied for 3 more jobs after i got rejected. I am not sure at the moment like what I want. Like the main this is can the tranny handle it? Next would be will i be happy with the power. like having camshaft done would be great but that would probably be as far as I can go with N/A set up. From there I would probably have to booast. But boasting might cause problem with the tranny.

I totally agree with you with me being wishy washy that why I been asking alot of questions. I want to make sure that it is done right and i am happy with it in the end because this is probably the last major thing I do to my motor. After that it will just be looks, electronic, and brakes.

Well, that's one of the biggest reasons to make your mind up before you start wasting money.  If you get cams for a n/a set up, and then decide to boost your car, you've just wasted money on cams that aren't meant for your build.  I also think that you're limiting your options if you think the only thing you can do is get cams for a n/a build.  If you really want to do it properly, then you would consider a better flowing head with performance VTEC.

Yeah tim your right about that about making up my mind. I am going to think long and hard about this before I do anything.
O yeah just to let you know the cams can be used for F/I or N/A set up. i looked it up on BC

Alright thanks for all the help guys and keep the idea flowing. I am going to sure 100% that I want to do it and just do it.

I was looking around in k20a and saw this

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=42500 (http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=42500)

wow k24a4 bone stock with a turbo = GG lol

Well, it has been done before.  If you really want, you could just pony up and get the RTC turbo kit and call it a day.

+1 because then your stuck with left over parts from another build you planned and then decided to switch routes half way through.

If you want a 3 lobe Vtec head Ive got a k20z3 head for sale. Ive heard its the best flowing head available in the USDM hondas. Just tossin ideas out  

I'll keep that in mind BliNx197. TY

The head is definitely a good upgrade, but will require replacing the pistons and rods.  I was in the same boat for a while about what I wanted to do with my build also.  That's why I didn't get a header until last year.  I've already comitted to the build that I'm doing and have acquired some of the main components, but I still need one thing for my final build.

tim how much did all that stuff cost you? If I am to do it I want to use my stock block. I can get the the tsx piston and rods for 120, but I was looking at the crv piston because I really dont want to run 91. I am willing to run 89 on the n/a set up.

I will look into it more on k20a

I got crv pistons too, and as for 120 for tsx rods n pistons u better check that again cuz just cuz they're  oem doesn't mean they'll work! according to paul used pistons is a big mistake

I ono about use piston are a big mistake. Its true that I dont know where they have been but they are oem. They are suppose to last the life of the car. Cuz I checked out online CP pistons are 400 + I beam rods are another 400.

I never said what I have.  I'm not telling anyone what my plans are actually.  It's a secret until after it's installed.


If you swap your head and raise the compression, you're going to want to run 91 or 93 anyway.  Again, you're continuing to take short cuts and be cheap about things.  No offense man, but with your philosophy about performance, you're better off leaving your car alone.

cali only has 91 there not a lot of places that sell 93 gas that I have seen.

And basically why I want to get it done by within a budget is basically the whole point of a k24/20 frank is a poor man k24a2.

The other reason why I ask if I can run lower grade gas is that my parents like to fill up my gas tank when I go home for the long weekend with either regular or plus. That being said I don't want them to screw up my motor and have it knocking all over the place because I know that the TSX requires 91 only. It even says so on the gauges on my friend tsx.

+1 to what Tim said. For now stick with Bolt-ons until you really get a grip on what your doing/want. I think everyone has gone through this phase wanting the biggest mod first and trying to ignore typical bolt-ons before it. Raising compression will help with power but installing OEM used pistons into another engine block, is never a good idea, enough said on that point.

If you really want something on the budget, why did you bring up the TSX pistons+rods and having them installed to raise compression? Because an engine build is no cheap install. As I said go with Bolt-ons because apparently many of us are making upwards of 190hp with them anyways.

If you really want a nice power gain tho, go with a S/C. I dont say this because im doing it, I say it because F/I is quick hp, can be reverted back to stock with little work about 90% of the time, and S/Cs specifically dont have the intensive maintenance time that a turbo requires and also saves on drivability. (not bagging turbos, theyre just harder to keep up with) and if your really looking to run normal 87 octane it can be tuned for that, youll lose power but save $$$ I guess.

Alright THANKS EVERYONE!!! I will do all the other bolt on first (still missing a few). If I am not happy. Then I will figure it out. Thanks for clearing everything out for a noob like me. ur help is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!  :smile:

You're so wrong with that one man.  I'm not sure where you got the idea that a K24/K20A2 is a poor mans K24A2.  A K24A2 long block is going to be less expensive than building a frankenstien motor.  You forget the cost of new/different pistons and rods, head studs, gaskets, oil pump, chain guides, having the block machined, and so on and so on.  All that little shit adds up.

From what I know, the K24A2 is a good upgrade for a simple swap that will give you a bit more reliable power.  A K24/K20A2 frankenstien is if you're building a race motor.  That's why guys like Cham are making 500+ hp on a build like that.

+1 Thats why Ima go with an a2 in the coming months after Im S/Ced! Thicker rods higher compression! 3 lobe vtec! Its the best of both worlds without the revy nearly ricey sound of a k20. Also! Tq! Cant forget the 2nd part of the Acceleration Equation! Either way you'll appreciate your car much more after you put some bolt-ons on it and figure out how it drives! Take it from everyone here! What I drive now is a completely different car from what I drove off of the lot that 1st day!

Tim I got the idea from http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?p=21199275 (http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?p=21199275)

Just use the find and type in poor man

and one k20a some dude also said that.

and I got it off here also

http://www.k-series.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12264 (http://www.k-series.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12264)

That clubrsx thread is kind of vague, and that article reposted never mentioned what block was being used.  They kinda half assed the details and it really seems like they are just taking short cuts.  In my experience, taking short cuts is a big no no, and could reduce reliability.  As I have mentioned before, stop trying to cut corners.

I think I will just do bolt ons. For some reason my car is faster then my friends MT accord i4. He has a lot more bolt on then I do and I see pull away from him...

He has intake, pulley, exhuast, tq dampener.

I have intake and tsx im.

perhaps he just cant drive.

I agree with that theory.

lol drives better then me. Then we switched cars and did the same thing. I ono his car is slow as fuck compared to mines.

Both coupes or sedans?  Does he have a big heavy stereo?  Dead body in the trunk?  Ignores regular maintenance?

Both sedans. I have steely,CAI and TSX. He has 18 rims, SR headers and exhust and pulley. both cars are well kept. All car had nothing in the trunk, He is an DX i am LX

The only realistic theory is that it's operator error and neither of you know how to drive a MT properly, thus the AT would perform better.

be nice tim

I pretty sure you don't have to drop the motor to change cams unless you are implying some internal work done to the block. Even if you are doing a head swap, you don't need to drop the motor but it will be hard on your back bending over the fenders and bumpers and reaching.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Doesn't Cham have 2 TSX's long blocks sitting pretty.

I'm sure he can find one if he doesn't have some already.  I'm not sure what he has at his place in Oregon, but the last time I was at his place out here he didn't have any.

I was refering to the motors he has in the for sale section unless they are sold.

Considering the age of the thread, they probably are sold by now.  You never know though.

In addition to driver error it could be 4 other things. 1. The fact that you have steelies and hes running 18s could be causing a problem with his stock suspension, harsher ride causing slower acceleration and/or the fact that they are heavier than your steelies. 2. If his engine is older he could be losing compression have them do a compression test on both of your engines if you really wanna figure this out. 3. TSX intake Mani is a huuuuuge difference in the k24s mid range power, I installed mine and it was a night and day difference, and 4. The fact that hes got headers, exhaust and a stock intake could have slightly reduced his back pressure.

I say make it stick. And then mod from there. It will be way faster than putting all f that other stuff into an automatic.

Woah.  Major thread revival.  He actually got rid of the car and got a V6 6MT in it's place.