Re: k20a2 head on k24a8

[timot_one]

I guess you misinterpreted what I was saying also Bryan.  Maybe I should give you more credit than I have been previously.  I guess we can only see what happens with this.  If it is possible, and your parts list pricing is accurate, I would say that the $100 or so difference would not be worth the effort to do the R&D just to see if this would work, when you get more features with kpro.  Your thought process doesn't require a stamp of approval from anyone here, unless someone else is doing the work for you.  I can't say that I agree with all of your logic when it comes to performance as whole and feel that there are better ways of doing things.  I've seen what happens when people think they know everything and ignore the suggestions of others, and I've also seen what happens when advice is taken from knowledgable people.  That's why guys like Mike Sedacca built a solid turbo kit and is making 300+ hp, and guys like itzjonjon69 are wondering why they've blown a head gasket and their motor is covered in oil.  I'm always going to tell people the truth when I think something is a bad idea.  Sometimes I have been right, and other times I have been wrong.  Whenever I post about stuff I'm not well versed in, I make sure to get feedback from guys like Skippy and Cham first.  If you don't want me to be honest with you, that's fine.  You can continue to do your thing, and I will avoid giving you feedback.  I just hope that you don't end up cutting corners that result in damage to your motor and a dent in your wallet.

[BliNx197]

Well we all misinterpret so thats my bad I just didnt like the little head banging the wall icon but input and advice is always appreciated, and as for itzjonjon69 Im not too familiar with his build but I remember AT GP coupe with a greddy kit and useless cams because of E-manage Blue.

As for kpro vs. flashpro kpro is the winner hands down from what hondata has even said, but hell! Im curious to explore another option and as Paul said the Si may have HVAC controls which means I wont have to run dual ECUs, hopefully Gauges will hook up correctly. Im just hoping since the 7.5 Accord was an 06-07 and the FG2 Si is an 06+ that honda incorporated some similar technology in the 7.5, doubtful but possible.

And then again no parts have been bought and then we'll know this is a dead end and nowone will need to go down this road again, and honestly you respect Paul's work dont you? I think hed smack me for going about this without any possibility of success! Ok enough of this bitchin! Ill be looking at this option more with Paul and if not Ill just be eventually running kpro prolly with the DBW harness if all goes good with Icebox's harness.

BTW should this thread be renamed or should this be moved to the ECU thread?

[NVA-AV6]

Did a quick look, more to come, but right off the bat.

The 06SI ECU directly controls the DBW throttle, no more external control box (Can be wired for)
The 06SI ECU does have HVAC controls in it.
The 06SI ECU at first glance uses all the same sensors as the 7.5gen including the MAF, but will require a different primary O2 sensor.

So far looks doable.....

[timot_one]

I'll probably edit this thread and split shit off.  We have taken this really far off topic.  I'll try to get it taken care of tonight after work.

[Abailey4]

I dont think there's need for editing.  Besides you guys have a pissing match you all provided good info as to what can be done, what cant be done and what might be possible.

[timot_one]

I want to split this thread off, since it's gotten so far off topic.

[Icebox]

Did a quick look, more to come, but right off the bat.

The 06SI ECU directly controls the DBW throttle, no more external control box (Can be wired for)
The 06SI ECU does have HVAC controls in it.
The 06SI ECU at first glance uses all the same sensors as the 7.5gen including the MAF, but will require a different primary O2 sensor.

So far looks doable.....

very intriguing!

[BliNx197]

People asked, so Im tryin to deliver and keep you all updated, but I figure Ill stop breaking my posts up in different threads and just keep them in here from now on, so here ya go.

Oh and something I never mentioned that Paul told me upon disassembly, the k24a8 block is outfitted for oil squirters like the k24a2. I heard that halfway through the engine drop in but was glad we didnt use em anyways because they lower your oil pressure and since you know!   I could care less.

So driving the Car up to Paul's was nearly impossible yesterday! I got on 123 and on the way up the hill (about a 40 degree incline) the car seems to be hesitant to let me keep going. I look at my speed and its dropped from 55mph to 40mph in 5th! Mind you this is all being controlled by the a8s ECU still with no adjustments. I get it up the hill and a CEL kicks on. So I pullover and scan it for problems, Knock Sensor. I figure maybe I got a bad batch of gas, clear it and lug to the gas station down the street!

I fill up with 93 octane, and just for added insurance go get some Octane Boost, toss it all in there for the rest of the ride. Clear the CEL think everythings peachy and start to drive again. still the knock CEL comes back but,.. and its below 500 miles on this new engine so under no circumstances am I doing anything but putting it along at the speed limit and taking nearly 20 seconds to get to 55! Yea it was getting pretty bad! So I decided alright 450+ on the initial break-in itll be ok to give it some more gas 1. Just to see if itd do anything for my sense of satisfaction. and 2. Maybe id get there at a decent rate and,.. Ill say I think I approached babying the car the wrong way at first.

The way I figure it is if an a8s ECU kicks vtec over at 2200 rpms, then the tiny bit of fuel being dripped in while at idle isnt sufficient and it hasnt been. (hence my insanely oscilating AFR gauge readouts due to a narrowband sensor) According to the ECUs readings im in constant vtec, so I approach this a different way and give it a fair amount of gas, rev to about 2k to pull off and then a bit more throttle (30%) over 2.2k so itll give proper fueling for a vtec k24a8 head and like magic the car drives close to normal. Granted I only have .8k rpms to work with and of course that crazy AFR isnt doing my ulsers any favors but its working. So a power update, after it hit 500miles Paul said it was alright to move it past 3k WITHIN REASON! So I took it to about 3800. and I must say even without proper fueling to the car and only giving it about 30% throttle the thing can pull like my old a8 at nearly 60-70% throttle even with the knock CELs on!

[NVA-AV6]

Talked to two different tunners, both said VTEC needs to be set 4400+ RPMs or she will fall on her face.....

[timot_one]

Time for a different EMS option.  I hope the FIC works since you already have that.

[NVA-AV6]

The FIC is only a temp solution and will probably end up buying Brians from him for use on one of my V6 builds, I am still investigating the wiring changes, but it is looking real good for flashpro for the A8s, it will be a heela lot cleaner and elegant solution for the A8, I am not knocking Chams work in anyway, it just makes alot more sense if this can be gotten down to a single ECU, conversion harness and o2 sensor.

[timot_one]

I hope it works out with the fpro and a different ECU.  I would love to run a single ECU, but I am also happy with what I have right now.  I will be visiting a Hondata dealer tomorrow with Cham to get a new tune on my car.  They also make custom harnesses, so maybe I can pick his brain for you if you want me to Paul.

[NVA-AV6]

Actually I looked real close at the two wiring diagrams and this is looking more and more doable with nothing more than a conversion harness to go from the A8 connectors to the SI connectors.....

[BliNx197]

very nice to hear! and I just sold a bunch of packages today so ill have $$$ on the way too! but yea as was previously stated a single ecu with the overall options of kpro is like a dream come true additionally most ppl don't swap to an 06+ si ecu so there cheap and so are there o2 sensors for now!

[BliNx197]

FUUuuuhuhuuuUCK!!! So Talked with Paul about 7x this morning and it looks like the ECU isnt accepting the F/IC with the modified head and higher compression! Oh well lesson learned! Gotta find another way around this problem!

On a good note, the engine is mechanically sound and partially broken in, which was my biggest fear but, the a8 ECU is detecting way too much knock and additionally not letting Paul add fuel to compensate for more air nor retard timing to counteract compression. So even if it had worked id pretty much be driving a stock k24a8 until 4400 rpms with an adjusted a8 vtec window anyways!

So were currently in the works to get this new route all hammered out, and Ill have updates as things develop. hopefully itll be up and running by next saturday for the BBQ! A shame tho! Im not gonna go to the East Coast Richmond meet now :-/  

Continuing to keep you all posted on the project as usual tho!